Transcript 01/09/89 Continued

15

MR. MARTINEZ: WHAT'S THE COURT'S PREFERENCE, MR. BURGER OR MYSELF?

THE COURT: IT IS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU. YOU CAN USE THE TIME AS YOU WISH, GENTLEMEN. YOU TOGETHER, COLLECTIVELY, HAVE YOUR HALF HOUR.

MR. MARTINEZ: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: GOOD MORNING.

MR. MARTINEZ: MICHAEL MARTINEZ, FOR THE FEDERAL DEFENDANTS.

LET ME BEGIN BY BRIEFLY RESPONDING TO WHAT MR. THOMAS HAS SAID THIS MORNING. FIRST OF ALL, WITH REGARD TO POLICE BRUTALITY AND DESTRUCTION OF SIGNS, THESE VARIOUS ALLEGATIONS HAVE BEEN ALLEGED IN THE PAST AND HAVE BEEN REJECTED IN THE PAST, BOTH IN VARIOUS CRIMINAL CASES IN WHICH THE THOMASES HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN AS WELL AS IN THE TWO CIVIL THOMAS CASES THAT WE'VE REFERRED TO THROUGHOUT OUR PAPERS THAT WERE BEFORE JUDGE OBERDORFER.

INDEED, DURING 1986, JUDGE OBERDORFER, AFTER REJECTING A LARGE PORTION OF MR. THOMAS'S CASE, REFERRED THE MATTER TO FORMER MAGISTRATE ARTHUR BURNETT, SR., AND MAGISTRATE BURNETT CONDUCTED TEN DEPOSITIONS OF VARIOUS INTERIOR DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS AND MR. CANFIELD, WHO IS ALSO A DEFENDANT, A D. C. DEFENDANT IN THIS CASE. MOST OF THOSE DEPOSITIONS WERE OF VARIOUS PARK POLICE OFFICERS WHO AT VARIOUS TIMES HAD BEEN ASSIGNED TO THE LAFAYETTE PARK AREA. INDEED, ONE OF THE FOCUSES


16

OF THOSE DEPOSITIONS WAS THE CRIMINAL CASE THAT MR. THOMAS REFERRED TO THIS MORNING THAT WAS TRIED BEFORE YOUR HONOR IN WHICH ULTIMATELY YOU DISMISSED THE INFORMATION OR THE INDICTMENT, WHATEVER IT WAS. SO THESE ALLEGATIONS OF POLICE BRUTALITY AND DESTRUCTION OF SIGNS AND WHAT NOT CAME UP IN THAT CASE, AND ULTIMATELY THEY WERE REJECTED BY JUDGE OBERDORFER WHEN HE DISMISSED THE CASE FOR FAILURE TO MEET THE HEIGHTENED PLEADING STANDARD THAT IS APPLICABLE TO BIVENS TYPE SUITS.

IT'S ALSO CLEAR THAT THIS CASE, I THINK, NOW THAT YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE TO READ OUR SUBMISSIONS AND TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT FROM MR. THOMAS, THAT THIS IS INDEED JUST ANOTHER VERSION OF ALLEGATIONS THAT MR. THOMAS HAS PRESENTED IN THE PAST. I THINK THAT'S QUITE CLEAR. ALTHOUGH I HAVE NOT READ HIS LATEST SUBMISSIONS, NOTHING I READ IN THE MATERIALS THAT HE HAS NOW WITHDRAWN LED ME 10 BELIEVE OTHERWISE. INDEED, IN HIS MOTION FOR ENLARGEMENT OF TIME THAT HE FILED LAST WEEK, MR. THOMAS STATED THAT THERE WAS NOT GOING THAT THE FEDERAL DEFENDANTS WOULD NOT BE HARMED BY THE ENLARGEMENT OF TIME BECAUSE NOTHING HE WAS GOING TO SAY WAS ANYTHING THAT MYSELF HAD NOT SEEN BEFORE. I THINK THAT'S AN INDICATION THAT MR. THOMAS RECOGNIZES THAT ALL OF THESE VARIOUS ALLEGATIONS IN THIS CASE ARE JUST A REHASH FROM EARLIER CASES THAT HE HAD.

ONE FINAL POINT WITH REGARD TO WHAT MR. THOMAS SAID HERE THIS MORNING IS HE HAS HE STATED THAT CONCEPCION PICCIOTTO HASN'T SLEPT SINCE 1982. THIS IS SIMILAR TO STATE

17

MENTS THAT HE MADE IN VARIOUS OF HIS CRIMINAL CASES, MOST RECENTLY IN THE ONE THAT WAS AFFIRMED BY THE COURT OF APPEALS, JUDGE FLANNERY'S CONVICTION. THE COURT OF APPEALS, DURING ORAL ARGUMENT, EXPRESSED A GREAT DEAL OF SKEPTICISM THAT SOMEONE COULD IN FACT BE IN THE PARK CONTINUOUSLY SINCE 1982 AND NOT SLEEP; IT'S JUST NOT HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THESE PEOPLE HAVE CONTINUALLY RESIDED FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES IN LAFAYETTE PARK SINCE 1981, AND THE CONFLUENCE OF THAT CONTINUAL PRESENCE WITH THESE FEDERAL REGULATIONS BRINGS US HERE TODAY, AS IT HAS IN VARIOUS CRIMINAL AND CIVIL PROCEEDINGS IN THE PAST.

TURNING TO OUR MOTION TO DISMISS, I WILL JUST TOUCH BRIEFLY ON THE VARIOUS ARGUMENTS WE MAKE. IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME NOW, BASED ON WHAT MR. THOMAS HAS SAID THIS MORNING OR BASED ON WHAT HE FILED ON FRIDAY, WHAT EXACTLY THE FOCUS OF HIS COMPLAINTS IS. OF COURSE, WHEN WE WERE MOVING TO DISMISS, WE TRIED TO TAKE THE BROADEST POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THE COMPLAINTS ARE VERY CLEAR, SO WE TRIED TO COVER EVERY BASE POSSIBLE.

HE ALLUDED IN HIS MATERIALS THAT HE HAS NOW WITHDRAWN, AND I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S CHANGED HIS POSITION, THAT THEY WERE NOT ALLEGING ANY COMMON LAW TORT CLAIMS. IT SEEMS TO ME, BASED ON THE COMPLAINT, THAT IT WAS REASONABLE FOR US TO ASSUME THAT THERE WERE COMMON LAW TORT CLAIMS: ASSAULT, BATTERY, DEFAMATION, ETC. WE HAVE ASSERTED IN OUR MOTION TO DISMISS, AND

18

IT HAS GONE UNCHALLENGED BY MR. THOMAS, THAT IN LIGHT OF THE RECENT AMENDMENTS TO THE FEDERAL TORT CLAIMS ACT, IT'S CLEAR THAT THE UNITED STATES IS THE ONLY PROPER DEFENDANT FOR THESE COMMON LAW TORT CLAIMS, AND HE'S NOT EXHAUSTED HIS ADMINISTRATIVE REMEDIES. SO INSOFAR AS THERE ARE COMMON LAW TORT CLAIMS ASSERTED, I BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TO AS A MATTER OF LAW DISMISS THOSE CLAIMS.

MR. THOMAS HAS ALSO FAILED TO MEET THE HEIGHTENED PLEADING STANDARD. AS YOUR HONOR KNOWS, THERE ARE SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 15 TO 20 FEDERAL DEFENDANTS IN THIS CASE. ALMOST EVERY ONE IS JUST MENTIONED AS A DEFENDANT, WITH NO FACTS AT ALL TO TIE HIM TO THE ALLEGATIONS OF THIS CASE, LET ALONE MEETING THE HEIGHTENED PLEADING STANDARD THAT'S BEEN SET FORTH IN THE VARIOUS CASES OF THIS CIRCUIT, PARTICULARLY MARTIN VERSUS MALHOYT, MARTIN VERSUS D. C. POLICE, AND HOBSON VERSUS WILSON. AND JUDGE OBERDORFER RELIED SPECIFICALLY ON THIS RATIONALE IN REJECTING THE CLAIMS AGAINST VARIOUS FEDERAL OFFICIALS IN HIS DISMISSAL OF THE TWO EARLIER CIVIL THOMAS CASES THAT WE'VE REFERRED IN OUR BRIEF. HE SIMPLY MR. THOMAS SIMPLY FAILS TO MEET THE HEIGHTENED PLEADING STANDARD.

HE ALSO FAILS T0 MEET THE VARIOUS SECTIONS OF 42 U.S.C. THAT HE CITES TO IN THIS CASE, PARTICULARLY 42 U.S.C. 1985, SECTION 3, 1986, AND 1983.

THE 1985, SECTION 3 CLAIM IS BASICALLY A CONSPIRACY CLAIM AS I READ IT, AND THIS REALLY TIES BACK INTO THE

19

HEIGHTENED PLEADING STANDARD THAT I'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED. MR. THOMAS DOES NOT DEMONSTRATE A CONSPIRACY. JUDGE OBERDORFER SPECIFICALLY REJECTED THE CONSPIRACY CLAIM BASED ON THE SAME ALLEGATIONS THAT MR. THOMAS IS MAKING IN THIS CASE THAT HE MADE IN THE EARLIER THOMAS CASES.

HE CANNOT STATE A 1986 CLAIM IN THIS CASE EITHER, BECAUSE AS WE POINTED OUT IN OUR BRIEF, AND AGAIN AS JUDGE OBERDORFER FOUND, YOU CANNOT STATE A 1986 CLAIM UNLESS THERE HAS BEEN A VIOLATION OF 1985, SECTION 3 FOUND.

AND HE CANNOT STATE A 1983 CLAIM AGAINST THE FEDERAL DEFENDANTS BECAUSE 1983 APPLIES ONLY TO THE STATES. THERE IS A LINE OF CASE LAW THAT SAYS 1983 CAN APPLY TO FEDERAL OFFICIALS WHEN THEY'RE ACTING IN A LOCAL CAPACITY. HOWEVER, THAT DOES NOT APPLY HERE BECAUSE THERE'S NO DISPUTE THAT AT ALL TIMES THE FEDERAL DEFENDANTS WERE INVOKING AND RELYING UPON FEDERAL REGULATIONS, SO THERE CANNOT POSSIBLY IN THIS CASE BE A CLAIM THAT THEY WERE ACTING IN A LOCAL CAPACITY.

THE PLAINTIFFS ALSO SUE THE PRESIDENT. BRIEFLY, WE STATE IN OUR BRIEF THAT YOU CAN'T SUE THE PRESIDENT IF RELIEF CAN BE OBTAINED FROM OTHER DEFENDANTS. MR. THOMAS HAS NOT RESPONDED TO THAT, AS I READ HIS SUBMISSIONS ON FRIDAY.

WE ALSO EXPLAIN OUR POSITION ON LACK OF PERSONAL JURISDICTION. I DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT IF ANY ADDITIONAL PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SERVED PURSUANT TO YOUR HONOR'S ORDER THAT INDIVIDUAL DEFENDANTS BE SERVED OTHER THAN THE ONES THAT WE HAVE

20

IDENTIFIED IN OUR MOTION THAT HAD BEEN SERVED. I WILL NOTE, HOWEVER, THAT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT SHOULD HALT THE COURT FROM TAKING ANY ACTION IN THIS CASE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER BECAUSE OF THE VARIETY OF OTHER ARGUMENTS THAT WE RELY UPON AS A BASIS FOR YOU TO DISMISS THIS CASE.

NEXT, WE ARGUE THAT MUCH OF THIS CASE, INDEED ALMOST ALL OF IT, IS BARRED BY THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS. DEPENDING ON WHICH CLAIM YOU LOOK TO, YOU HAVE EITHER A THREE YEAR, A TWO YEAR OR A ONE YEAR STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS APPLYING, AND WE SPELL THAT OUT A LITTLE BIT IN OUR BRIEF. THE THREE YEAR WOULD APPLY TO TORTS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY COVERED BY THE D. C. STATUTE; THE ONE YEAR WOULD APPLY TO CLAIMS LIKE FALSE ARREST, FALSE IMPRISONMENT; THE TWO YEAR WOULD APPLY TO ANY OF THE FTCA CLAIMS. BASICALLY, THIS ENTIRE CASE SEEMS TO FALL ALMOST ENTIRELY OUTSIDE OF ANY OF THE ONE , TWO OR THREE YEAR STATUTES OF LIMITATIONS, AND IT SEEMS TO ME YOU CAN DISMISS THE CASE ON THAT BASIS.

BRIEFLY, WE ALSO ARGUE THAT THE VARIOUS FEDERAL DEFENDANTS ARE ENTITLED TO QUALIFIED IMMUNITY. MR. THOMAS ASSERTED ALMOST NO_RESPONSE TO THAT IN HIS SUBMISSIONS FRIDAY. I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S NOW AMENDED THAT IN HIS NEW SUBMISSIONS, SINCE I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM. BUT IT SEEMS TO US THAT HE HAS MANIFESTLY FAILED TO DEMONSTRATE HOW ANY OF THESE DEFENDANTS VIOLATED ANY OF THE PLAINTIFFS' CLEARLY ESTABLISHED CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OR WHICH THEY SHOULD HAVE REASONABLY


21

KNOWN.

THE LAST TWO POINTS THAT WE DISCUSS IN OUR BRIEF RELATE TO THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE REGULATIONS AS THEY APPLY TO LAFAYETTE PARK AND THE WHITE HOUSE SIDEWALK, IT IS NOT CLEAR TO ME, AND IT HAS NEVER BEEN COMPLETELY CLEAR TO ME, WHAT EXACTLY MR. THOMAS IS ASSERTING WITH REGARD. TO THOSE. IT'S CLEAR BEYOND PERADVENTURE NOW THAT THOSE REGULATIONS ARE CONSTITUTIONAL. THE SUPREME COURT. OUR COURT OF APPEALS, AND VARIOUS JUDGES OF THIS COURT HAVE EXAMINED IN SOME DETAIL AND AT SOME LENGTH VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THE REGULATION, AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE ONLY REJECTION OF ANY OF THE REGULATION WAS MADE BY YOUR HONOR, AGAIN IN THE CRIMINAL CASE THAT MR. THOMAS REFERRED TO, WHERE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOUR HONOR FOUND THAT THE REGULATION WAS VAGUE INSOFAR AS THE TERM "STRUCTURE" WAS DEFINED. THAT PROBLEM HAS NOW BEEN CLARIFIED, HAS BEEN CLARIFIED FOR THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS, IN THE REGULATIONS AS THEY CURRENTLY STAND IN THE C.F.R., "STRUCTURE" IS SPECIFICALLY DEFINED.

IF MR. THOMAS IS ASSERTING AS ONE COULD, I THINK, REASONABLY CONCLUDE, THAT THE REGULATIONS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL OR THAT THEY WERE PROMULGATED IN SOME UNCONSTITUTIONAL MANNER, I THINK THAT'S JUST CLEARLY WRONG. AND I HAVE YET TO SEE ANYTHING SUBMITTED BY HIM IN THIS OR ANY OF HIS EARLIER CASES WHICH WOULD DEMONSTRATE TO THE CONTRARY. AND INDEED, NO JUDGE THAT I'M AWARE OF HAS EVER FOUND IN A MANNER THAT SUPPORTS MR. THOMAS'S OR THE OTHER PLAINTIFFS' ASSERTIONS.


22

FINALLY, MR. THOMAS ARGUES EXCUSE ME. THE PLAINTIFFS ARGUE, AS I READ IT AGAIN, THAT THERE IS SOME SORT OF SELECTIVE PROSECUTION OR EQUAL PROTECTION PROBLEM WITH THE INAUGURATION COMMITTEE’S CONSTRUCTION OF VARIOUS ITEMS TN LAFAYETTE PARK AS OPPOSED TO THINGS THAT THE PLAINTIFFS HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO DO. I THINK UNITED STATES VERSUS GRACE IS DISPOSITIVE OF THIS.

THE STATUTE CITED IN OUR BRIEF, AS WELL AS THE REGULATIONS; SPECIFICALLY PROVIDE FOR THE VARIOUS ACTIVITIES OF THE INAUGURAL COMMITTEE THAT WOULD NOT NORMALLY BE ALLOWED BY OTHER DEMONSTRATORS OR OTHER PEOPLE. AND THE REASON FOR THIS IS THAT THE CONGRESS AND THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR HAVE SPECIFICALLY FOUND THAT THE INAUGURATION IS A NATIONAL CELEBRATORY EVENT THAT COMES ONCE EVERY FOUR YEARS AND THAT FOR THAT REASON, VARIOUS THINGS CAN TAKE PLACE IN LAFAYETTE PARK THAT MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE BE PERMITTED. AND THE REGULATIONS AND THE STATUTE SPECIFICALLY PROVIDE FOR THAT. THE COURT OF APPEALS SPECIFICALLY FOUND THAT THAT WAS CONSTITUTIONAL IN THE GRACE CASE, WHICH WE'VE CITED IN OUR BRIEF.

IN THE EARLIER GRACE CASE, THE DEFENDANT IT WAS A CRIMINAL CASE HAD ASSERTED THAT THE REGULATION WHICH PROHIBITED STANDING IN THE CENTER ZONE OF THE WHITE HOUSE SIDEWALK WITH A SIGN WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE SHE HAD BEEN PROSECUTED FOR VIOLATING THAT REGULATION BUT YET THE INAUGURATION COMMITTEE, WHO HAD PUT THE PRESIDENTIAL SEAL IN THE


23

CENTER ZONE OF THE WHITE HOUSE SIDEWALK, HAD NOT BEEN PROSECUTED. AND THE COURT OF APPEALS FLATLY REJECTED ANY SORT OF EQUAL PROTECTION, SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT ARGUMENT. I THINK THE SAME THING APPLIES HERE.

AS THE ADMINISTRATIVE RECORD FOR THE LAFAYETTE PARK AND EARLIER PARTS OF THE REGULATION DEMONSTRATE, ONE OF THE RATIONALES FOR THE REGULATION WAS TO FOR AESTHETICS AND TO MINIMIZE THE HARM THAT WAS CAUSED BY VARIOUS PROTESTERS OR VARIOUS OTHER PERSONS OR COMPANIES OR WHATEVER IN LAFAYETTE PARK BY A CONTINUAL PRESENCE, AND THAT HAS BEEN CLARIFIED IN THIS CASE. IT'S BEEN TAKEN CARE OF INSOFAR AS THE INAUGURATION COMMITTEE MIGHT CAUSE DAMAGES BECAUSE THEY HAVE POSTED A $50,000 LETTER OF CREDIT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR. SO THAT IF THE PLAINTIFFS' CONCERN IS THAT THEY ARE NOT HARMING THE PARK BUT THE INAUGURAL COMMITTEE MIGHT, THE INAUGURAL COMMITTEE HAS, PURSUANT 10 ITS PERMIT THAT'S BEEN GRANTED BY THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR, PUT UP A SUBSTANTIAL SUM OF MONEY TO COVER ANY OF THOSE SORT OF PROBLEMS.

AND INDEED, NOTWITHSTANDING ALL OF THIS, THE PLAINTIFFS STILL HAVE AVAILABLE TO THEM ONE QUADRANT OF LAFAYETTE PARK IN WHICH THEY CAN CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN THEIR VIGIL. THEY HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THAT. IT'S POINTED OUT IN OUR PAPERS THAT THROUGHOUT THE INAUGURAL FESTIVITIES, THEY ARE NOT BEING KICKED OUT OF LAFAYETTE PARK. THEY CAN CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN THEIR VIGIL IN ONE QUADRANT OF THE PARK. BUT WE'RE SIMPLY SAYING THAT IT WAS

24

CONSTITUTIONAL FOR THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR TO DO WHAT HE DID IN TERMS OF GRANTING A PERMIT TO THE INAUGURATION COMMITTEE, AND WE BELIEVE THAT THAT IS CLEARLY WARRANTED BY THE CASE LAW AND THE STATUTE AND REGULATIONS.

UNLESS THE COURT HAS ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS, THAT WILL CONCLUDE MY ARGUMENT FOR THIS MORNING.

THE COURT: THANK YOU, MR. MARTINEZ.

MR. BURGER.

MR. BURGER: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. IF IT PLEASE THE COURT.

AS WE POINT OUT IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA'S MOTION, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA WAS NOT AN INITIAL DEFENDANT IN THE INITIAL COMPLAINT, BUT DID FIND ITSELF AS A DEFENDANT IN THE SECOND AMENDED COMPLAINT. THE ONLY ALLEGATIONS WITH RESPECT TO DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA DEFENDANTS, RELATE TO MARCH OF 1983, A PERIOD APPROXIMATELY FIVE AND A HALF YEARS PRIOR TO THE FILING OF THIS LAWSUIT.

THE ARREST OF MR. THOMAS BY D. C. CAPTAIN CANFIELD TOOK PLACE IN MARCH OF 1983, WHEN MR. THOMAS BURNED DOWN THIS A FRAME SIGN STRUCTURE, AND HE WAS CONVICTED FOR THAT; HE WAS CONVICTED FOR DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY. AND THE FIRE ACTUALLY CAUSED APPROXIMATELY $5,000 WORTH OF DAMAGE TO THE FENCE AREA.

OF COURSE, A CONVICTION, UNDER MCCLAIN VERSUS BARRY, WOULD PRECLUDE A CLAIM OF FALSE ARREST FOR THE UNDERLYING OFFENSE. BUT MOST CLEARLY, FROM THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA POINT


25

OF VIEW, THERE'S A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS BAR TO THIS CLAIM. THERE IS NO ALLEGATION THAT THERE WAS ANY INVOLVEMENT BY THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SUBSEQUENT TO THE PERIOD IN MARCH OF 1983.

FURTHER, YOUR HONOR, WE ATTACHED TO OUR MOTION THE 18 PAGE REPORT AND RECOMMENDATION OF MAGISTRATE BURNETT IN WHICH HE ASSESSED VERY CAREFULLY, AFTER TEN DEPOSITIONS WHICH HE HIMSELF PRESIDED OVER, THAT THERE WAS NO VIOLATION OF MR. THOMAS'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS BY CAPTAIN CANFIELD.

AND WE FURTHER ARGUE, YOUR HONOR, THAT WITH THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA BEING THE ONLY DEFENDANT, CAPTAIN CANFIELD NOT HAVING BEEN SERVED, THERE WOULD ALSO BE THE MONELL ARGUMENT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MR. THOMAS.

MR. THOMAS: YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT THIS PROBABLY MIGHT MAKE WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY CLEAR ABOUT THE FACTS. I FIND IT ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE THAT THE GOVERNMENT CAN SAY WHAT IT SAID WITH RELATION TO MAGISTRATE BURNETT'S CONDUCT OF THE DEPOSITIONS. ALTHOUGH THE GOVERNMENT IS RELYING VERY HEAVILY ON THAT CASE, AND ALTHOUGH MR. MARTINEZ IN HIS OPPOSITION TO THE MOTION TO STRIKE SAYS THAT EXHIBIT 4 WAS AI HE CLAIMS, CORRECTED VERSION OF AN APPENDIX THAT WAS ATTACHED TO ONE OF MAGISTRATE BURNETT’S OPINIONS, HE HAS FOR SOME REASON NOT SUBMITTED THIS OPINION. AND THIS OPINION, WHICH LET ME JUST TAKE OUT OF THE APPENDIX. BECAUSE THIS I WOULD LIKE THE COURT TO READ BEFORE IT


26

READS ANY OF MY FILINGS. THIS OPINION SUGGESTS THAT THIS CASE MUST GO TO TRIAL.

THE COURT: THIS OPINION IS MAGISTRATE BURNETT'S OPINION?

MR. THOMAS: THAT IS MAGISTRATE BURNETT'S OPINION. MAGISTRATE BURNETT ISSUED SEVERAL OPINIONS. THIS IS THE OPINION THAT NONE OF THE DEFENDANTS HAVE BROUGHT INTO EVIDENCE, AND THIS IS THE ONE THAT

THE COURT: WHAT IS THE DATE OF THAT ONE?

MR. THOMAS: THIS IS JANUARY 13TH, 1987. AND MAGISTRATE BURNETT GIVES, I THINK, IN HIS OPINION THE COURT WILL TO DECIDE FOR ITSELF, BUT I THINK MAGISTRATE BURNETT'S OPINION GIVES A MUCH DIFFERENT SLANT ON WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS SOME BASIS, SOME SUBSTANCE TO OUR COMPLAINTS.

THE COURT: WAS THAT A FINAL OPINION OF MAGISTRATE BURNETT, OR WAS THAT AN INTERMEDIARY, INTERLOCUTORY OPINION?

MR. THOMAS: WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT ON JUNE 6 OF 1986, JUDGE OBERDORFER ISSUED A PRETRIAL MEMORANDUM WHERE HE DIRECTED MAGISTRATE BURNETT, PURSUANT TO TITLE 28, TO CONDUCT THE DEPOSITIONS AND SUPERVISE THE DEPOSITIONS IN THE CASE. AS A RESULT OF THAT, HE LISTENED TO TEN GOVERNMENT WITNESSES. THE GOVERNMENT DIDN'T TAKE ANY DEPOSITIONS OF US, SO OUR SIDE OF THE STORY DIDN'T REALLY GET INTO THE RECORD. BUT I THINK THAT THE MAGISTRATE MAKES A STRONG CASE IN SUPPORT OF US AND THAT THESE FACTS THAT WE ALLEGE DO NEED SOME FURTHER INVESTIGATION.


27

THE COURT: LET ME ASK AGAIN: WAS THAT A FINAL OPINION OF ALL THE OPINIONS THAT MAGISTRATE BURNETT MAY HAVE WRITTEN DURING THE COURSE OF HIS

MR. THOMAS: THIS WAS HIS BOTTOM LINE, YES. THIS WAS HIS LAST ONE.

THE COURT: THAT WAS HIS BOTTOM LINE, THE JANUARY 13, 1987 OPINION.

MR. THOMAS: RIGHT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. MARTINEZ: YOUR HONOR

THE COURT: WE'LL HEAR FROM YOU IN A MOMENT, MR. MARTINEZ.

YES, SIR.