WOULD GO AND SLEEP DURING THE: DAY, WHILE CONNIE WAS AWAKE DURING THE DAY. THEN, CONNIE WOULD EITHER GO SOMEWHERE AND SLEEP OR JUST CURL UP THERE ON THE WALL AND GO TO SLEEP.

Q. YES, SIR.

A. AND THOMAS WOULD STAY AWAKE.

Q. ON THOSE OCCASIONS, THERE MUST HAVE BEEN SOME OCCASIONS, THOUGH, SIR, WHERE YOU SLEPT IN LAFAYETTE PARK, AND YOU KNEW THAT MR. THOMAS WAS THERE SLEEPING, AS WELL, IS THAT CORRECT, IN THE SUMMER OF 1983?

A. YES.

Q. YES. NOW, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU IS JUST SIMPLY THIS: ON ANY OF THOSE OCCASIONS WERE YOU, YOURSELF, EVER ARRESTED?

A. NO, SIR.

Q. AND WAS MR. THOMAS EVER ARRESTED, AGAIN, ON THOSE OCCASIONS WHEN YOU KNOW HE WAS SLEEPING THERE THE SAME NIGHT THAT YOU WERE?

A. NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

Q. ALL RIGHT.

THE COURT: DO I UNDERSTAND THE TESTIMONY TO BE THAT THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AN OCCASION WHEN YOU WERE SLEEPING AT "HE SAME TIME AS THOMAS WAS SLEEPING, AND THOMAS WAS ARRESTED, AND YOU WERE NOT?

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE COURT: WAS THERE SUCH AN OCCASION?

THE WITNESS: NOT WHEN I WAS SLEEPING.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

THE WITNESS: BUT, SIR, THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE SLEEPING IN THE PARK WHEN THOMAS HAS BEEN ARRESTED ON THE SAME OCCASION. IT WASN'T ME, PERSONALLY, NO, SIR.

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. WELL, ALL RIGHT. LET US --

THE COURT: DID YOU OBSERVE THAT?

THE WITNESS: NO, I WAS TOLD ABOUT IT. THAT IS HEARSAY.

THE COURT: I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THAT.

YOU NEVER SAW ANYBODY ELSE SLEEPING ON THE OCCASIONS WHEN YOU SAW THOMAS BEING ARRESTED? THAT IS THE QUESTION.

THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. I HAVE NEVER REALLY SEEN THOMAS BEING ARRESTED FOR CAMPING. I HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE AT THE TIME, SIR.

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I THINK THAT WOULD COMPLETE MY QUESTIONS.

THE COURT: ANY REDIRECT?

MR. GRABER: NO, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THANK YOU DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER WITNESS?

MR. GRABER: MR. THOMAS.

THE COURT: HOW LONG WILL THIS BE?

MR. GRABER: PERHAPS 20 MINUTES.

THE COURT: HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE HERE, ANYWAY, ISN'T HE, WHEN WE HAVE THE NEXT PROCEEDING?

MR. GRABER: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE SOME OTHER WITNESS WHO WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE HERE?

MR. GRABER: MISS PICCIOTTO IS GOING TO TESTIFY. WE HAVE NO OTHER WITNESSES OTHER THAN THE DEFENDANTS AT THIS TIME.

THE COURT: WELL, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE HERE, ANYWAY.

MR. GRABER: RIGHT. MR. MONTGOMERY TESTIFIED AT HE PRIOR HEARING, AND THAT HAS BEEN ADOPTED FOR THESE PURPOSES OUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WELL, I THINK I WILL ADJOURN NOW, UNLESS MR. SHMANDA HAS SOMETHING FURTHER.

MR. SHMANDA: NO, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: HAVE YOU ALL CONSIDERED A CONVENIENT TIME. TIME TO RESUME?

MR. GRABER: YES.

MR. SHMANDA: YOUR HONOR, WE DID TRY TO CONSULT WITH ONE ANOTHER.

MR. GRABER: BEFORE YOUR HONOR LEAVES THE BENCH, I HAVE EXHIBITS I CAN HAVE THE CLERK MARK. BUT, PERHAPS, IN OPEN COURT I SHOULD IDENTIFY THEM, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF MR. SHMNDA MAY HAVE AN OBJECTION TO ONE OR TWO OF THEM.

THE COURT: VERY WELL. AS LONG AS WE HAVE STOPPED TO SCHEDULE AND EVERYBODY IS STANDING UP, LET'S DO THAT.

MR. GRABER: YOUR HONOR, I AM INVOLVED IN A WHITE HOUSE CASE CIVIL TRIAL WHICH IS GOING TO COMMENCE ON DECEMBER 6TH. BUT JUDGE BRYANT INDICATED TO US LAST WEEK THAT HE FELT THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT ANY PROCEEDINGS ON THURSDAY, DECEMBER 8TH.

I STOPPED BY CHAMBERS BEFORE 2:00 TO TRY TO CONFIRM THAT THERE WOULD BE NO PROCEEDINGS ON THAT DATE. HE WAS OUT OF THE OFFICE AND HIS SECRETARY INDICATED THAT PROBABLY THE CASE WOULD NOT BE CONDUCTED ON THE 8TH, BUT THAT I COULD CALL AND RECONFIRM THAT THIS AFTERNOON. SO PROBABLY THE 8TH WOULD BE OPEN.

THE COURT: ARE YOU AVAILABLE, MR. WOLL?

MR. WOLL: YES, YOUR HONOR.

MR. SHMANDA: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: LET ME SEE MY CALENDAR.

MR. GRABER: I CAN CONFIRM THAT LATER THIS AFTERNOON, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WAIT JUST A MINUTE. GENTLEMEN, I HAVE A CIVIL TRIAL SCHEDULED TO BEGIN ON THE 7TH IN A WMATA CASE. THOSE THINGS OFTEN EVAPORATE.

LET'S SET THIS FOR THE 8TH.

MR. GRABER: I DID SUBPOENA AN OFFICER, AND PART OF THAT WAS A DUCKS TECUM. I WOULD JUST ASK IF THE GOVERNMENT WOULD BE ABLE TO -- SINCE I CAN'T RE-SERVE IT ON THAT SHORT NOTICE -- TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY WERE GOING TO HONOR THAT, EXTEND THAT DATE TO WHATEVER DATE THE COURT SETS.

MR. SHMANDA WE WIIL JUST SUBPOENA HIM OURSELVES. THAT WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT. I WILL GET THE INFORMATION HE WANTS.

THE COURT: UNLESS SOMETHING UNFORESEEN HAPPENS, HIS CASE WILL BE CONTINUED UNTIL 10:00 O'CLOCK ON THE 8TH.

MR. SHMANDA FINE, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.

MR. WOLL: THANK YOU.

MR. GRABER THANK YOU.

THE COURT MR. THOMAS AND MISS PICCIOTTO, THIS HEARING IS CONTINUED, EXCEPT FOR SOME TECHNICALITIES, UNTIL 10:00 A. M., ON THURSDAY, DECEMBER 8TH.

YOU HAVE A DUTY TO BE HERE AT THAT TIME.

MR. GRABER YOUR HONOR, PERHAPS WE COULD TAKE CARE OF THE EXHIBITS AT THE START OF THAT DAY, INSTEAD OF DOING THEM NOW.

THE COURT: THAT WILL BE FINE.

MR. GRABER OKAY. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

MR. WOLL: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

(WHEREUPON, AT 3 10 O'CLOCK P. M., THE COURT ADJOURNED.)

INDEX

WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS

ROBERT ALLEN DORROUGH 11 17 (BY WOLL)

23 (BY SHMANDA)

EXHIBITS

DEFENDANTS' FOR IDENT. IN EVIDENCE

1, 2 11

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

V. CRIMINAL CASE NO. 83-243

WILLIAM THOMAS AND

CONCEPCION PICCIOTTO, )

DEFENDANTS. )

WASHINGTON, D. C.

DECEMBER 9, 1983

THE ABOVE-ENTITLED MATTER CAME ON FOR THE HEARING OF MOTIONS BEFORE THE HONORABLE LOUIS F. OBERDORFER, UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, AT APPROXIMATELY

2:30 O'CLOCK P. M., PURSUANT TO NOTICE.

APPEARANCES

( THE SAME AS HERETOFORE NOTED. )

PROCEEDINGS

THE DEPUTY CLERK: CRIMINAL NO. 83-0243, THE CASE OF WILLIAM THOMAS AND CONCEPCION PICCIOTTO.

COUNSEL FOR THE GOVERNMENT, MR. T. SHMANDA.

COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENDANT NO. 1, SEBASTIAN GRABER; AND, FOR DEFENDANT NO. 2, DAVID C. WOLL.

THE COURT: MR. WOLL?

MR. WOLL: YOUR HONOR, JUST ONE BRIEF MATTER. I HAVE A BRIEF ARRAIGNMENT AT 3:30 BEFORE JUDGE HAROLD GREENE. I AM WONDERING IF IT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE --

THE COURT: LET'S TALK ABOUT SCHEDULING A MINUTE.

MR. WOLL: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: DO WE HAVE A TRIAL DATE?

MR. SHMANDA: NO, WE DO NOT, YOUR HONOR, NOT YET.

THE COURT: I HAD A TRIAL SCHEDULED FOR MONDAY AND TUESDAY OF NEXT WEEK WHICH IS CATCELLED. HOW MUCH MORE OF THIS MOTIONS HEARING IS THERE?

MR. GRABER: YOUR HONOR, THERE IS MR. THOMAS' TESTIMONY.

MR. WOLL: AND SHORT TESTIMONY FROM MISS PICCIOTTO.

THE COURT: AND THAT IS IT?

MR. GRABER: THEN THERE WOULD BE A POLICE OFFICER, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ARE YOU CALLING A POLICE OFFICER?

MR. GRABER: OFFICER HAYNES, WE WOULD WANT TO EXAMINE ONE ISSUE.

THE COURT: HE IS NOT HERE TODAY?

MR. GRABER: I BELIEVE HE IS.

THE COURT: OH, IS HE?

MR. SHMANDA: HE IS, YOUR HONOR, YES.

THE COURT: HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THAT YOU WOULD INVOLVE HIM?

MR. GRABER: MY QUESTIONS TO HIM WOULD BE 15 MINUTES AT THE MOST, AND PROBABLY TEN. THERE IS JUST ONE INCIDENT HAT I WANT TO INQUIRE OF HIM ABOUT.

THE COURT: THE PARTIES HAVE TO BE HERE, ANYWAY. WHY DO WE NOT HAVE THE POLICE OFFICER TODAY, AND TRY TO ADJOUR BY 3:30.

MR. SHMANDA: FINE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: AND THEN WE CAN RESUME WITH THE WITNESSES WHO ARE NOT POLICE OFFICERS NEXT WEEK.

MR. GRABER: NEXT WEEK, AS FAR AS I KNOW, I AM GOING TO BE IN TRIAL ON THE WHITE HOUSE VIGIL FOR THE ERA CASE. AS FAR AS WE KNOW, THAT CASE WILL RUN ALL OF NEXT WEEK AND POSSIBLY PART OF THE FOLLOWING WEEK, UNTIL IT IS OVER. THERE MAY BE POINTS AT WHICH THE JUDGE HAS A RECESS FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME.

THE COURT: IS THAT JUDGE BRYANT?

MR. GRABER: JUDGE BRYANT, YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: HE IS GOING TO RUN THAT ALL NEXT WEEK?

MR. GRABER: AS FAR AS I KNOW, FROM WHAT HE INDICATED TO US AT THE CLOSE OF COURT ON WEDNESDAY. BUT I AM GOING TO BE HERE ALL NEXT WEEK, AND IF SOME TIME WORKS OUT --

THE COURT: WELL, I HAVE TIME MONDAY AND TUESDAY. I DON'T HAVE TIME AFTER THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW WHEN I WILL HAVE TIME.

MR. GRABER: IF WE COULD START AT 9:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, THE OTHER TRIAL STARTS AT 10:00.

THE COURT: WE CAN PICK AT IT THAT WAY. IS THAT A PROBLEM FOR YOU, MR. SHMANDA?

MR. SHMANDA: THAT IS FINE, YOUR HONOR. BECAUSE OF THE NUMBER OF POLICE OFFICERS, YOUR HONOR, I HAVE FOUR HERE, AND --

THE COURT: LET'S GET MOVING WITH THEM AND RELIEVE THEM.

MR. SHMANDA: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: AND WE WILL ADJOURN AT 3:30. HOW LONG WILL YOUR HEARING BE?

MR. WOLL: IT IS AN ARRAIGNMENT.

THE COURT: IT WILL NOT TAKE BUT A MOMENT. LET'S GO UNTIL 3:30 AND SEE WHERE WE ARE. WHO IS CALLING THE POLICE OFFICERS?

MR. SHMANDA: I WILL BE GLAD TO CALL THEM, IF YOU WOULD LIKE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: JUST SO WE GET THEM IN THE COURTROOM. DO YOU WANT A RULE ON WITNESSES?

MR. GRABER: I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS NECESSARY, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WELL, THEN, BRING THEM ALL IN.

MR. SHMANDA: SHALL I BRING THEM ALL IN, YOUR HONOR?

MR. GRABER: MR. WOLL REQUESTS A RULE ON WITNESSES, OUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. JUST BRING IN THE FIRST ONE.

WOULD YOU MIND ARRANGING IT, MR. SHMANDA, SO THAT THE SECOND ONE IS OUTSIDE THE DOOR?

MR. SHMANDA: OKAY. FINE, YOUR HONOR. I WILL BE GLAD TO.

THE DEPUTY CLERK: IS THERE A RULE ON WITNESSES, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES.

THE DEPUTY CLERK: ALL WITNESSES IN THE CRIMINAL CASE OF WILLIAM THOMAS AND CONCEPCION PICCIOTTO WILL PLEASE RETIRE TO THE WITNESS ROOM, UNTIL CALLED.

THE COURT: ARE WE DUPLICATING ENTIRELY WHAT JUDGE BRYANT IS DOING?

MR. SHMANDA: YOUR HONOR, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I AM NOT PART OF THOSE PROCEEDINGS.

MR. GRABER: EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: ARE WE DUPLICATING WHAT JUDGE BRYANT IS DOING?

MR. GRABER: NO, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS EXCLUSIVELY WITH RESPECT TO THE WHITE HOUSE SIGN REGULATIONS. CAMPING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT CASE. JUDGE BRYANT HAS A CAMPING CASE, BUT THAT INVOLVES A DIFFERENT DEFENDANT.

THE COURT: ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE TO DO ALL THE SAME TESTIMONY?

MR. GRABER: IN THAT CASE WE DID NOT RAISE -- WE RAISED CONSTITUTIONAL MOTIONS, BUT NOT A SELECTIVE-PROSECUTION MOTION.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

WHEREUPON,

DAVID HAYNES WAS CALLED AS A WITNESS, AND, HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN,

WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED, AS FOLLOWS:

THE DEPUTY CLERK: BE SEATED, PLEASE.

MR. SHMANDA: SHALL I PROCEED, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES.

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU, SIR.

DIRECT EXAMINATION -- BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO HIS HONOR AND TO COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANTS BY GIVING US YOUR FULL NAME, AND SPELL YOUR LAST NAME?

A. YES. I AM DAVID HAYNES, UNITED STATES PARK POLICE. THE LAST NAME IS SPELLED H-A-Y-N-E-S.

Q. THANK YOU, OFFICER HAYNES.

AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES PARK POLICE, SIR?

A. A BIT MORE THAN 11 YEARS, SIR.

Q. NOW, OFFICER HAYNES, I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE YOU BACK IN TIME, IF I COULD, PLEASE, TO AN INCIDENT THAT IS ALLEGED TO HAVE OCCURRED ON SEPTEMBER 24, 1973, AT APPROXIMATELY 6:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, OR THEREABOUTS.

FIRST OF ALL, CAN YOU TELL US WHERE YOU WERE AT ABOUT THAT TIME AND ON THAT DATE?

A. YES, SIR. ON 9/24/83, I WAS ASSIGNED TO THE WHITE HOUSE AREA OF LAFAYETTE PARK AND THE 1600 BLOCK OF PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE, NORTHWEST.

Q. YES, SIR.

A. UPON -

Q. WHEN DID YOU COME ON DUTY THAT PARTICULAR MORNING,

A. I CAME ON DUTY AT 0600 HOURS.

Q. YES, SIR. AND WERE YOU GOING TO SOME PARTICULAR AREA WHEN YOU FIRST CAME ON DUTY?

A. YES, SIR. I WAS RIDING A GOLF CART TO MEET MY RELIEF, WHO WAS GOING TO GO OFF AT 0600 HOURS.

Q. OKAY. AND WHERE WAS THAT RELIEF? WHERE WERE YOU ACTUALLY GOING TO MEET THAT RELIEF?

A. I WAS GOING TO MEET HIM AT JACKSON PLACE , ACROSS FROM THE NORTHWEST GATE OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

Q. YES, SIR. AND DID THAT OCCUR, OFFICER HAYNES?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. AND AFTER YOU RELIEVED WHOEVER IT WAS THAT YOU DID RELIEVE, DID ANYTHING OCCUR IN OR AROUND THAT SAME AREA?

A. YES, SIR. ENROUTE TO MY RELIEF, I WAS RIDING THE GOLF CART. ENROUTE TO MY RELIEF, I NOTICED THE TWO DEFENDANTS, MRS. --

Q. TO WHOM ARE YOU REFERRING?

A. MR. THOMAS AND MRS. PICCIOTTO, I BELIEVE, OR PICCIOTTO, LYING ON THE PAVEMENT. I PASSED THEM, SPEAKING TO THEM, AND I WENT ON TO MY RELIEF.

Q. OFFICER HAYNES, COULD YOU PLEASE, TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY, TELL US WHERE, PARTICULARLY, ON THE PAVEMENT YOU ARE REFERRING TO?

A. THE SOUTH SIDE OF LAFAYETTE PARK, OR THE SOUTH.SIDE OF PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE. WELL, IT IS BEST DESCRIBED AS THE SOUTH SIDE OF LAFAYETTE PARK, IS WHERE THE TWO

DEFENDANTS WERE LYING ON THE PAVEMENT.

Q. ALL RIGHT. AND IN TERMS OF THE GENERAL LAYOUT OF LAFAYETTE PARK AND THE WHITE HOUSE, WHERE WERE THEY, IN TERMS OF THAT BLOCK: TO ONE EXTREME, AT THE MIDDLE, ANYTHING YOU CAN TELL US ABOUT THAT?

A. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BLOCK, SIR.

Q. ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU PLEASE IUDICATE, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, HOW YOU SAW THEM, WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THEM?

A. THE WILL, AS I RODE PAST, MR. THOMAS WAS ON MY RIGHT, AND THE WOMAN WAS ON HIS RIGHT --

Q- OKAY.

A. (CONTINUING) -- AS THEY WERE LYING PRONE ON THE GROUND, OR ON THOSE PAVEMENT.

Q. HOW FAR ON THE PAVEMENT WERE THEY, OFFICER HAYNES, IF YOU ARE ABLE TO TELL US?

A. WELL, THEIR HEADS WERE RESTING PRETTY MUCH ON THE -- WELL, UP AGAINST THE CURB OR THE ABUTMENT THERE ON THE SIDEWALK

Q. YES, SIR.

MR. SHMANDA: MAY WE PLEASE HAVE THIS MARKED, YOUR HONOR, AS HEARING EXHIBIT NO. 1?

THE COURT: YES.

THE DEPUTY CLERK: GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 1 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU.

(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 1 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)

MR. SHMANDA: DOES YOUR HONOR CARE TO SEE IT?

THE COURT: HAND IT UP, PLEASE.

THE COURT: THIS IS THE SOUTH SIDE OF LAFAYETTE PARK ON THE NORTH SIDE OF PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE?

MR. SHMANDA: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. SHMANDA: I AM SHOWING SAME TO COUNSEL AT THIS TIME. TIME YOUR HONOR.

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION AND ASKING YOU TO JUST LOOK FOR A MOMENT, IF YOU WOULD, OFFICER HAYNES, AT GOVERNMENT HEARING EXHIBIT NO. 1, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE AREA DEPICTED IN GOVERNMENT'S HEARING EXHIBIT NO. 1?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. AND WHAT IS THE AREA DEPICTED THEREIN?

A. THE AREA DEPICTED HERE IS -

Q. I CAN'T HEAR YOU, SIR. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE.

A. THE AREA DEPICTED HERE IS LAFAYETTE PARK. WE ARE LOOKING FROM SOUTH TO NORTH.

Q. ALL RIGHT.

THE COURT: I RECOGNIZE IT. YOU ARE TALKING TO ME. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ELICIT ALL OF THAT.

MR. SHMANDA: FINE, YOUR HONOR. GOOD ENOUGH. THANK YOU.

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. OFFICER HAYNES, IN THE AREA THAT IS DEPICTED WITHIN GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 1, WOULD THAT INCLUDE THE GENERAL LOCATION OF WHERE YOU SAW THE TWO DEFENDANTS ON THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 24, 1983?

A. YES, WITH AN EXCEPTION, SIR. THE SNOW FENCE WAS NOT THERE AT THAT TIME IN THIS AREA JUST BEHIND THE WOMAN. IT WAS NOT THERE AT THAT TIME. THAT WAS PUT UP SUBSEQUENT TO --

Q. WILL YOU HOLD IT UP SO I CAN SEE IT AND THE JUDGE CAN SEE IT, TOO?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. IN OTHER WORDS, IT SHOWS -

A. THIS -

Q. (CONTINUING) -- THE SITUATION, EXCEPT FOR THE FENCE THE FENCE WAS NOT PRESENT?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. CAN YOU ROUGLY POINT TO THE SIDEWALK AND SHOW US WHERE YOU OBSERVED THE TWO DEFENDANTS?

A. YES. WHERE MISS PICCIOTTO IS HERE IS ROUGHLY WHERE THEY WERE LYING ON THE PAVEMENT.

THE COURT: LET ME JUST GET ONE THING STRAIGHT. THEY WERE LYING ON THE PAVED SIDEWALK, AND NOT ON THE PAVED STREET?

THE WITNESS: ON THE SIDEWALK HERE, YES, SIR.

THE COURT: YOU SAID THEIR HEADS WERE NEAR THE CURB THAT IS THE CURB NEAR THE -

THE WITNESS: THERE WAS A SLIGHT PAVED ABUTMENT SEPARATING THE SIDEWALK FROM THE GRASS.

THE COURT: OH, THEIR HEADS WERE THAT WAY?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. UPON -- WELL, BEFORE WE GET TO THAT QUESTION -- WERE THERE ONLY TWO SUCH INDIVIDUALS AT THE GENERAL LOCATION YOU HAVE JUST DESCRIBED ON THE PAVEMENT?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. AND WHAT ACTION, IF ANY, DID YOU TAKE AT THAT TIME, THE TIME OF YOUR INITIAL OBSERVATION, OFFICER HAYNES?

A. AT THE TIME OF MY INITIAL OBSERVATION, AS I STATED, I WAS ON A GOLF CART, ENROUTE TO MY RELIEF.

Q. YES, SIR.

Q. NOW, I WAS THINKING THAT THE WOMAN AND THE GENTLEMAN WERE BOTH LYING DOWN AND WERE NOT SLEEPING. I SPOKE TO THEM AND CONTINUED ON TO RELIEVE OFFICER JAMES.

Q. WHEN YOU SAY YOU SPOKE TO THEM, WHAT DID YOU SAY?

A. I WAVED AND ASKED THEM HOW THEY WERE DOING, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THE COURT: I BEG YOUR PARDON?

THE WITNESS: I WAVED AND SPOKE.

THE COURT: YOU WAVED AND SAID, "HELLO"?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. DID YOU GET ANY RESPONSE

A. NO, I DIDN'T --

Q. (CONTINUING) -- FROM EITHER PERSON?

A. I DON'T RECALL. NOW, WAS ON MY WAY TO MEET MY RELIEF, TO SEND HIM ON HIS

WAY.

Q. I UNDERSTAND.

A. NOW, SUBSEQUENT TO RELIEVING OFFICER JAMES, I CONTINUED TO THE LODGE HOUSE, THE OFFICE THAT WE HAVE IN LAFAYETTE PARK THAT HOUSES A TELEPHONE AND A DESK.

Q. YES, SIR.

A. I WENT TO THAT LOCATION TO LEAVE THE GOLF CART AND SUBSEQUENTLY WALKED BACK TO THE LOCATION THAT THE WOMAN AND THE GENTLEMAN WERE LYING.

Q. WHAT TIME WOULD THIS BE, APPROXIMATELY, OFFICER HAYNES?

A. ROUGHLY, 0620 OR 0625 HOURS.

Q. ALL RIGHT. IS IT DAYLIGHT YET AT THIS TIME ON THIS PARTICULAR DATE AND AT THIS TIME?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE AND WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID YOU DO, BASED ON YOUR OBSERVATIONS?

A. WELL, MR. THOMAS WAS LYING ON HIS BACK WITH HIS FACE UP TO THE SKY, AND THE WOMAN WAS LYING, FACING HIM, CURLED UP IN AN S-FORM. I CALLED TO BOTH OF THEM, TRYING TO CHECK TO SEE IF THEY WERE AWAKE.

Q. WHAT DID YOU CALL, SIR? WHAT WORDS DO YOU RECALL USING?

A. WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW THE WOMAN'S LAST NAME AT THAT TIME. I CALLED OUT, "CONCEPCION," WHICH IS WHAT SHE IS KNOWN BY, AND "THOMAS." I SAID, "CONCEPCION" AND "THOMAS."

Q. DID YOU GET ANY RESPONSE TO EITHER OF THOSE STATEMENTS?

A. NO, I DIDN'T.

Q. WERE YOU IN A POSITION TO OBSERVE THEIR ACTUAL FACES INCLUDING THE CONDITION OF THEIR EYES?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. AND WHAT WAS THE CONDITION OF THEIR EYES AT THE TIME YOU WERE MAKING THESE OBSERVATIONS AND CALLING TO THEM?

A. THEY WERE CLOSED.

Q. PLEASE CONTINUE. WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID YOU OBSERVE AND/OR DO?

A. WELL, WE WERE TOLD THAT, ACCORDING TO --

THE COURT: WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE, AND WHAT DID YOU DO?

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. JUST TELL US WHAT YOU DID, SIR, AND NOT WHAT YOU WERE TOLD.

A. I CALLED THEM BY THEIR NAMES, AS I STATED, AND I GOT NO RESPONSE, BUT --

THE COURT: WHAT DID YOU DO?

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. WHAT DID YOU DO, ONCE YOU GOT NO RESPONSE?

A. WELL, I SUMMONED MY SUPERVISOR TO THE LOCATION,

Continued...

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