WILLIAM THOMAS AND CONCEPCION PICCIOTTO,

FOR THE DEFENDANT THOMAS: | SEBASTIAN GRABER, ESQ. FOR THE DEFENDANT PICCIOTTO: DAVID WOLL, ESQ.

THE DEPUTY CLERK: CRIMINAL CASE NO. 83-243, THE CASE OF WILLIAM THOMAS AND CONCEPCION PICCIOTTO.

COUNSEL FOR THE GOVERNMENT, MR. SHMANDA; COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT NO. 1, MR. GRABER; COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENDANT NO. 2, MR. WOLL.

MR. WOLL: GOOD AFTERNOON, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: GOOD AFTERNOON.

MR. WOLL: YOUR HONOR, MR. THOMAS IS PRESENT. MIS PICCIOTTO IS PRESENT, YOUR HONOR. APPARENTLY, SHE WENT TO THE RESTROOM.

THE COURT: WELL, I AM SORRY. THE CASE WAS CALLED AT 2:00 O'CLOCK. IT IS FIVE AFTER 2:00, AND MR. SHMANDA HAS AN EMERGENCY. WE ARE TRYING TO GET THE CASE COMPLETED.

DO YOU KNOW WHERE MR. THOMAS' COUNSEL IS?

MR. WOLL: YOUR HONOR, I RETURNED MR. GRABER'S CALL THIS MORNING, AND HE INDICATED THAT HE WOULD BE HERE.

THE COURT: WE WILL PROCEED WITH YOUR REPRESENTING MR. THOMAS AND MISS PICCIOTTO ABSENT UNTIL EVERYBODY GETS HERE. I AM NOT GOING TO WAIT ANY LONGER.

MR. WOLL: VERY WELL, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MR. SHMANDA, DO YOU HAVE AN OPENING STATEMENT?

MR. SHMAN DA: YES, YOUR HONOR, A VERY BRIEF ONE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. SHMANDA: MAY I PROCEED, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES.

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU. YOUR HONOR, MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT

THE COURT: JUST A MINUTE. BEFORE YOU DO THAT -- ALL RIGHT.

(MISS PICCIOTTO AND MR. GRABER ENTERED THE COURTROOM.)

THE COURT: MR. GRABER, COME TO THE BAR, PLEASE.

MR. GRABER: OH, EXCUSE ME.

THE COURT: THE CASE WAS SET FOR 2:00 O'CLOCK.

MR. GRABER: I APOLOGIZE TO THE COURT, BUT THE LAST SUBWAY STATION, AS SOON AS I ENTERED IT, I MISSED THE TRAIN, AND, FOR SOME REASON, IT WAS TEN MINUTES BEFORE ANOTHER ONE CAME.

THE COURT: WELL, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE AHEAD OF TIME, IF YOU CAN'T BE HERE ON TIME.

MR. GRABER: I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MR. SHMANDA HAS A MEDICAL EMERGENCY, AND I AM TRYING TO DEAL WITH THAT, AND IT DOES NOT HELP ME TO HAVE YOU OR EITHER OF THE DEFENDANTS LATE. I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SEND OUT A BENCH WARRANT AND IN A FEW MORE MINUTES I WAS GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU.

MR. GRABER: I AM SORRY, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WE WILL PROCEED.

MR. GRABER THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE A BRIEF STATEMENT?

MR. SHMANDA: YES, YOUR HONOR, VERY BRIEF.

MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT, MR. WOLL, AND MR. GRABER: THE GOVERNMENT EXPECTS TO PROVE BY EVIDENCE WHICH WILL CONSIST OF ESSENTIALLY TWO POLICE OFFICERS WHO WERE ON THE SCENE, OFFICER DAVID HAYNES AND HIS SERGEANT, SERGEANT MALHOYT, THAT AT APPROXIMATELY 6 00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING OF SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER, 24, 1983, ON THE SIDEWALK, THE NORTH SIDEWALK IN LAFAYETTE PARK, THE TWO DEFENDANTS, MR. THOMAS AND MISS PICCIOTTO, WERE OBSERVED TO BE APPARENTLY SLEEPING ON THAT SIDEWALK BY, FIRST, OFFICER HAYNES, AND, AFTER HE SUMMONED HIS SUPERVISOR, BY OFFICER MALHOYT.

THAT ON THE BASIS OF THEIR APPARENT SLEEPING ON THE SIDEWALK, AS OBSERVED BY THE OFFICERS, THEY WERE ARRESTED; |AND, AS A RESULT OF THAT ARREST, A LARGE NUMBER OF OBJECTS IN AND AROUND THEM WERE SEIZED, YOUR HONOR, AND WERE SUBJECT |TO A DETAILED INVENTORY LATER.

THE GOVERNMENT WILL ADDUCE EVIDENCE AS TO WHAT THAT INVENTORY SHOWED. IN ESSENCE, IT WILL SHOW THAT A LARGE VARIET PF PERSONAL PROPERTY, INCLUDING FOODSTUFFS AND OTHER SUCH MATERIALS, WERE IN THE POSSESSION OF ONE OR BOTH OF THE DEFENDANTS AND THAT THE POSSESSION OF THIS PROPERTY ON THE SIDEWALK,

TOGETHER WITH THEIR APPARENT SLEEPING BEHAVIOR, CONSTITUTED VIOLATION OF THE CAMPING REGULATION. WHICH PROHIBITS USE OF THAT PARTICULAR SIDEWALK AREA, THE NORTH SIDEWALK OF LAFAYETTE PARK, AS AN AREA USED FOR LIVING ACCOMMODATIONS.

THAT WOULD BE THE GOVERNMENT'S CASE, YOUR HONOR, BRIEFLY.

THE COURT: OKAY. DO YOU EXPECT TO USE ANY OF THE TESTIMONY IN THE SUPPRESSION HEARING?

MR. SHMANDA: WELL, I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST, YOUR HONOR, THAT WE COULD AT LEAST USE THE TESTIMONY AT THE SUPRESSION HEARING OF OFFICER ANDERSON, WHO VERIFIED THE PROPERTY LIST.

THE COURT: HAVE YOU DISCUSSED THAT WITH THE DEFENDANTS

MR. SHMANDA: I HAVE NOT HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS IT WITH ANYONE BECAUSE OF THE MOST RECENT ARRIVAL OF DEFENSE COUNSEL.

THE COURT: VERY WELL.

MR. SHMANDA: BUT THE MAIN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR, WILL BE SUPPLIEDBY OFFICER HAYNES AS TO WHAT --

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU GO AHEAD WITH THAT TESTIMONY.

MR. SHMANDA: RIGHT.

THE COURT: LET ME SEE IF THE DEFENDANTS WISH TO MAKE AN OPENING STATEMENT.

MR. SHMANDA: OKAY.

MR. GRABER: YOUR HONOR, WE DO NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH STIPULATION TO WHAT EVIDENCE WAS ADDUCED AT THE MOTIONS HEARING.

THE COURT: YOU DON'T?

MR. GRABER: NO, YOUR HONOR, AND, IN LIGHT OF THAT TESTIMONY --

THE COURT: HAS THAT BEEN TRANSCRIBED?

MR. GRABER: I DON'T KNOW. WE HAVE NOT ORDERED IT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. GRABER: I DON'T KNOW IF THE GOVERNMENT HAS.

THE COURT: GO AHEAD. SO YOU STIPULATE TO THAT?

MR. GRABER: WELL, I AM WILLING TO, YOUR HONOR.

MR. WOLL: I AM WILLING TO, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NOW, HOW ABOUT YOUR CLIENT HAVE YOU EXPLAINED THAT TO THEM? YOU MAKE SURE THAT MR. THOMAS UNDERSTANDS WHAT YOU ARE STIPULATING TO, AND HAVE HIM AGREE ON THE RECORD, IF HE AGREES.

MR. GRABER: YES, IF YOUR HONOR WILL INDULGE ME FOR A MOMENT.

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

THE DEFENDANT THOMAS: YES, I STIPULATE TO IT.

THE COURT: STAND, PLEASE.

THE DEFENDANT THOMAS: YES, I STIPULATE TO IT.

THE COURT: VERY WELL.

THE DEFENDANT PICCIOTTO: I STIPULATE, YOUR HONOR

THE COURT: VERY WELL. NOW, MR. SHMANDA, WITH THAT STIPULATION, DO YOU HAVE FURTHER EVIDENCE?

MR. SHMANDA: WOULD THAT INCLUDE ALL OF THE TESTIMONY YOUR HONOR, THAT WE HEARD AT THE MOTIONS HEARING?

THE COURT: THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.

MR. SHMANDA: YES -- YOUR HONOR, NO. IF THEY WOULD STIPULATE TO THE RECORD AS WE ADDUCED IT FOR THE HEARING, I WOULD HAVE NO FURTHER EVIDENCE, BECAUSE IT WOULD BE REPETITIOUS.

THE COURT: VERY WELL. DO YOU HAVE THE EXHIBITS?

MR. SHMANDA: YES, YOUR HONOR, WE HAD TWO EXHIBITS.

THE COURT: DON'T YOU HAVE AN INVENTORY?

MR. SHMANDA: YES.

THE COURT: SHOULDN'T THEY BE PUT IN THE RECORD?

MR. SHMANDA: THEY SHOULD, INDEED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: VERY WELL.

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU.

THE COURT: MAYBE THE DEFENDANTS, IF YOU ASK THEM, WILL STIPULATE TO THEM, AND WE WILL NOT HAVE TO HAVE A WITNESS. IF YOUR CLIENT IS TALKING ON THE RECORD, HE OR SHE WILL HAVE TO STAND AND SPEAK SO THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND. OTHERWISE, I WILL ASSUME THEY ARE TALKING TO YOU.

MR. SHMANDA: EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR.

YOUR HONOR, THE GOVERNMENT WOULD MOVE FOR THE ADMISSION INTO EVIDENCE OF THE OBJECTS THAT PREVIOUSLY HAVE BEEN IDENTIFED AND RECEIVED FOR THE PURPOSES OF OUR MOTIONS HEARINGS.

THE COURT: WELL, LET'S HAVE A NEW EXHIBIT LIST FOR THE TRIAL.

MR. SHMANDA: YES. OKAY.

THE COURT: AND THAT WILL BE GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 1?

MR. SHMANDA: NO. 1.

THE COURT: VERY WELL.

MR. SHMANDA: A PHOTOGRAPH.

THE COURT: AND, WITHOUT OBJECTION, IT IS RECEIVED.

MR. GRABER: THERE IS NO OBJECTION. IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT THAT WAS NOT TAKEN ON THE NIGHT OF THE ARREST, BUT --

THE COURT: I BEG YOUR PARDON?

MR. GRABER: IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT IT WAS NOT TAKEN ON THE NIGHT OF THE ARREST. IT DOES NOT DEPICT THE EXACT SCENE --

MR. SHMANDA: IT WAS ADMITTED THE LAST TIME, YOUR HONOR, JUST TO DEPICT THE GENERAL VICINITY THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ON THE SIDEWALK.

THE COURT: IT IS ADMITTED TO DESCRIBE THE VICINITY.

MR. SHMANDA: YES, YOUR HONOR.

MR. GRABER: NO OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

MR. WOLL: NO OBJECTION.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

THE DEPUTY CLERK: GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 1 MARKED INTO EVIDENCE.

(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 1 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU. WE WOULD PROFFER, YOUR HONOR, FOR ADMISSION GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 2.

THE COURT: BEING?

MR. SHMANDA: BEING THE INVENTORY OF ALL OF THE PROPERTIES THAT WERE SEIZED THAT MORNING BY SERGEANT MALHOYT OF THE U. S. PARK POLICE AFTER THE ARREST OF THE TWO DEFENDANT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: IS IT THE EVIDENCE THAT ALL OF THOSE ARTICLES WERE AT THE PLACE WHERE THE DEFENDANTS WERE APPREHENDED?

MR. SHMANDA: YES, YOUR HONOR, IN AND AROUND THAT LOCATION.

THE COURT: OKAY. NOW, THERE IS SOME FURTHER COLLOQUY BY OVER THERE. LET'S JUST WAIT UNTIL WE GET THAT SETTLED.

MR. WOLL: YOUR HONOR, I BELIEVE WE WILL STIPULATE TO IT.

THE COURT: I BEG YOUR PARDON?

MR. WOLL: YOUR HONOR, I BELIEVE WE WILL STIPULATE, AND HAVE NO OBJECTION, TO THE ADMISSION OF THAT.

THE COURT: TO THE ADMISSION OF THAT DOCUMENT AS EVIDENCE OF WHAT WAS IN THE DEFENDANTS' POSSESSION AT THE SITE WHERE THEY WERE ARRESTED; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. GRADER: AS TO WHAT OBJECTS WERE SEIZED ON THE SCENE, AND THE MOTIONS TESTIMONY AS TO WHO IT BELONGED TO WOULD STAND AS IT IS.

THE COURT: BUT, AS BETWEEN THE TWO DEFENDANTS, WITHOUT INDICATING TO WHICH DEFENDANT THAT PROPERTY BELONGED, IT WAS PROPERTY THAT WAS AT THE SITE WHEN THE ARREST OCCURRED?

MR. GRABER: THAT IS TRUE. WE WILL STIPULATE TO THAT, AND NO OBJECTION TO THE EXHIBIT 2.

THE COURT: IS THAT CORRECT, MR. WOLL?

MR. WOLL: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: VERY WELL. IT WILL BE RECEIVED FOR THAT PURPOSE.

THE DEPUTY CLERK: GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 2 MARKED INTO EVIDENCE. (GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 2 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

MR. SHMANDA: I BELIEVE, WITH THOSE TANGIBLE PIECES OF EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR, THE GOVERNMENT WOULD REST ITS CASE.

THE COURT: VERY WELL.

MR. GRABER: YOUR HONOR, FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE RECEIVED BACK THE EXHIBITS FROM THE MOTIONS HEARING.

THE COURT: THEY HAVE RESTED. NOW, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

MR. GRABER: YES. I WOULD, ON BEHALF OF THE DEFFNDANTS MAKE A MOTION FOR A JUDGMENT OF ACQUITTAL.

THE COURT: YES.

MR GRABER- IN ADDITION TO THE GROUNDS PREVIOUSLY ASSERTED, WE WOULD AT THIS POINT STATE THAT, AS APPLIED, AS THE CAMPING STATUTE IS APPLIED TO THE CONDUCT OF THE DEFENDANTS THAT IT IS IN VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT; AND THAT THE DEFENDANTS WERE MAINTAINING A 24-HOUR VIGIL.

THIS STATUTE, AND THE WAY IT WAS ENFORCED, AS THE FACTS IN THIS CASE DEMONSTRATED, MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO MAINTAIN A 24-HOUR VIGIL.

THEREFORE, WE WOULD SUBMIT THAT THEIR ACTIVITY, WHICH WAS EXPRESSIVE IN NATURE, SHOULD BE PROTECTED BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND MOVE TO STRIKE THE GOVERNMENT'S CASE.

THE COURT: THANK YOU. DO YOU HAVE A MOTION, MR. WOLL?

MR. WOLL: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD JOIN IN MR. GRABER'S MOTION.

I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT, ADDITIONALLY, YOUR HONOR, THAT AS I RECALL THE TESTIMONY OF THE POLICE OFFICERS, THESE DEFENDANTS WERE NOT GIVEN ANY OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE ON OR TO CEASE FROM VIOLATING THE STATUTE.

I FEEL, YOUR HONOR, THAT UNDER THE LAW THEY ARE ENTITLED TO SUCH NOTICE OR WARNING TO BECOME IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAW.

SINCE THIS WAS NOT DONE IN THIS CASE, IT IS INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR, OF A WILLFUL ACT ON THE PART OF THESE DEFENDANTS TO CONTINUE SLEEPING, IN THE FACE OF WARNINGS THAT WARP NEVER GIVEN, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THOSE MOTIONS ARE DENIED. MR. GRABER'S MOTION, BASED ON THE FIRST AMENDMENT, IS DENIED FOR THE REASON STATED IN THE MEMORANDUM FILED IN RESPECT OF THE MOTION TO SUPPRESS.

MR. WOLL'S MOTION IS DENIED, AMONG OTHER REASONS, BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN AMPLE PRIOR WARNINGS ON OTHER OCCASIONS.

DO THE DEFENDANTS WISH TO MAKE AN OPENING STATEMENT?

MR. GRABER: YOUR HONOR, WE DO NOT HAVE AN OPENING STATEMENT.

THE COURT: MR. WOLL?

MR. WOLL: YOUR HONOR, I DO NOT HAVE AN OPENING STATEMENT, BUT MISS PICCIOTTO DOES WISH TO TAKE THE STAND.

THE COURT: SURELY. LET'S HEAR THE THOMAS CASE FIRST. MR. GRABER, DO YOU HAVE ANY WITNESSES YOU WISH TO CALL?

MR. GRABER: MR. WILLIAM THOMAS.

THE COURT: VERY WELL.

WHEREUPON,

WILLIAM THOMAS WAS CALLED AS A WITNESS, AND, HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN,

WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

THE DEPUTY CLERK: BE SEATED, PLEASE.

THE COURT: MR. GRABER, HAVE YOU INSTRUCTED YOUR WITNESS THAT THE PROCEDURE CONTEMPLATES THAT HE WILL ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU ASK HIM. AND ONLY ANSWER THAT, AND THEN WAIT FOR ANOTHER QUESTION BEFORE HE VOLUNTEERS INFORMATION?

MR. GRABER: WELL, YOUR HONOR, I HAVE TOLD HIM THAT IN ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS POSED TO HIM ON DIRECT EXAMINATION, THAT HE SHOULD ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT I ASK, BUT THAT IF HE FEELS HE NEEDS TO EMBELLISH IT TO SOME EXTENT --

THE COURT: WELL, I WOULD RATHER HE JUST ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

THE DEFENDANT THOMAS: I DON'T EVEN WANT TO. FORGET IT. THE WHOLE THING IS A JOKE.

THE COURT: VERY WELL.

MR. GRABER: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT TO SPEAK TO MY CLIENT?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

THE DEFENDANT THOMAS: HE HAS ALREADY MADE UP HIS MIND. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT. IT IS A CHARADE.

MR. GRABER: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

YOUR HONOR, MR. THOMAS STATES HE DOES NOT WANT TO TESTIFY.

THE COURT: VERY WELL. CALL THE NEXT WITNESS.

MR. WOLL: YOUR HONOR, WE CALL MISS PICCIOTTO TO THE STAND.

WHEREUPON,

CONCEPCION PICCIOTTO WAS CALLED AS AWITNESS, AND, HAVING BEING FIRST DULY SWORN,WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

THE COURT: MR. WOLL, YOU MAY INQUIRE.

MR. WOLL: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

DIRECT EXAMINATION--BY MR. WOLL.

Q. STATE YOUR FULL NAME FOR THE COURT.

A. CONCEPCION PICCIOTTO.

Q. ALL RIGHT. AND WHERE ARE YOU PRESENTLY RESIDING?

A. I AM SORRY?

Q. WHERE ARE YOU PRESENTLY LIVING?

A. I AM LIVING IN THE STREET.

Q. OKAY. NOW, BACK ON SEPTEMBER 24, 1983, WERE YOU ARESTED IN THE VICINITY OF LAFAYETTE SQUARE?

A. I WAS PROTESTING IN LAFAYETTE SQUARE BECAUSE I WAS --

THE COURT: THE QUESTION WAS WHETHER YOU WERE ARRESTED

THE WITNESS: I WAS ARRESTED THERE BECAUSE --

THE COURT: YOU HAVE ANSWERED THE QUESTION. YOU WERE ARRESTED.

THE WITNESS: PROTESTING --

THE COURT: HE ASKED YOU WHETHER YOU WERE ARRESTED. YOUR ANSWER IS "YES." NOW, DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION?

MR. WOLL: YES, SIR.

THE WITNESS: WE HAVE TO GET TO THE POINT, SIR.

BY MR. WOLL:

Q. APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME WERE YOU ARRESTED?

A. I BELIEVE IT WAS ABOUT 7:30, OR A LITTLE BIT EARLIER.

Q. IN THE MORNING, IS THAT CORRECT?

A. YES, ON SATURDAY.

Q. NOW, YOU WERE ARRESTED BY THE PARK POLICE?

A. YES, I WAS ARRESTED BY THE PARK POLICE.

Q. OKAY. NOW, AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE ARRESTED, HERE YOU SLEEPING?

A. I WAS REPOSING. I WAS SITTING, REPOSING.

Q. ALL RIGHT. WERE YOU ASLEEP?

A. I WAS PROTESTING, MR. WOLL, AGAINST THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

THE COURT: THE QUESTION IS WHETHER YOU WERE SLEEPING, MA'AM.

THE WITNESS: EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR. I WAS --

THE COURT: YOU WILL HAVE TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, R I WILL ASSUME –

THE WITNESS: I WILL GET TO THE POINT AS TO WHAT I WAS DOING THERE.

THE COURT: THE QUESTION WAS WHETHER YOU WERE SLEEPING

THE WITNESS: THE POINT IS THAT I WAS PROTESTING. I WAS REPOSING.

BY MR. WOLL:

Q. ALL RIGHT. YOU WERE REPOSING.

A. AFTER I HAD BEEN ALL NIGHT KEPT AWAKE BY THE POLICE, WITH THE CARS FOCUSING THE LIGHTS ON ME, I WAS EXHAUSTED IN THE MORNING, AND I WAS REPOSING.

Q. ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU SEE THE POLICE APPROACHING YOU BEFORE THEY ARRESTED YOU?

A. NO, HE CAME FROM THE BACK. I HEARD.

Q. YOU HEARD?

A. YES, BUT I DID NOT SEE HIM, BECAUSE HE CAME FROM THE BACK.

Q. ALL RIGHT.

A. OFFICEF' HAYNES.

Q. SO WERE YOU AWAKE WHEN THEY WERE APPROACHING YOU?

A. I WAS AWAKE. I TOLD THOMAS.

Q. ALL RIGHT. OKAY.

A. THOMAS WAS AWAKE, TOO.

Q. OKAY. NOW, WHAT WAS YOUR PURPOSE IN BEING THERE THAT MORNING?

A. MY PURPOSE FOR BEING THERE: I AM PROTESTING AGAINST THE NUCLEAR WAR AND THE HOMELESS.

Q. ALL RIGHT.

A. I AM FORCED BY THE GOVERNMENT TO BE HOMELESS, AND I.AM PROTESTING AGAINST THE NUCLEAR WAR.

Q. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. NOW, HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN PROTESTING IN THAT AREA WHERE YOU WERE ARRESTED?

A. SINCE 1981, IN THE SUMMER.

Q. IN THE SUMMER?

A. OF 1981.

Q. OKAY. NOW, AT THAT TIME ON SEPTEMBER 24, 1983, WERE YOU CONDUCTING ANY TYPE OF VIGIL?

A. YES, A 24-HOUR VIGIL. I COMMITTED MYSELF TO A 24-HOUR VIGIL TO EMF'HASIZE THE NECESSITY OF BEING THERE.

Q. AND HOW LONG HAD YOU MAINTAINED THAT VIGIL?

A. TWENTY--FOUR HOURS, DAY AND NIGHT.

Q. FOR HOW LONG A PERIOD OF TIME, UP TO SEPTEMBER -

A. SINCE 1981.

Q. (CONTINUING) -- SEPTEMBER 24TH?

A. YES.

Q. OKAY. NOW, WAS ANY OF YOUR PROPERTY SEIZED?

A. I HAD NO PROPERTY. WOULD YOU CALL THREE LITTLE BAGS OF MC DONALD'S PROPERTY? THAT IS NOT PROPERTY, OR A SPOON FROM MC DONALD ' S. I DON'T CONSIDER THAT PROPERTY.

Q. OKAY. SO WHAT YOU --

A. AND TWO SANDWICHES IS NOT PROPERTY.

Q. WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU HAD, THAT WAS YOURS

A. YES. I HAD A COUPLE OF UMBRELLAS, I BELIEVE; RUBBER BOOTS FOR THE ELEMENTS, WHEN RAINING OR UNPREDICTABLE; A RAINCOAT, THINGS OF THAT TYPE.

Q- DID YOU HAVE THAT ON YOUR PERSON, OR IN SOME SORT OF BAG?

A. YES, IN A BOX BEHIND THE SIGN.

Q. ALL --- OKAY. THE SANDWICHES WERE IN THE BOX?

A. YES. I HAD A BOX WITH A -- ESPECIALLY THAT NIGHT, WHEN THE OFFICER BARRETT WAS BOTHERING ALL THE TIME WITH THE LIGHTS, SOMEBODY CAME ALONG AND GAVE ME SOME CROISSANTS, AND WE WERE EATING THEM, WHILE SHE WAS FOCUSING THE LIGHTS ON US. SO WE HAD THAT EXTRA FOOD, BECAUSE THIS PERSON CAME FROM A BAKERY AND OFFERED US THE DONATION.

Q. ALL RI(;HT. OKAY. NOW, IN THIS BOX, YOU HAD YOUR SANDWICHES; IS THAT CORRECT?

A. YES, THAT'S RIGHT, A COUPLE OF SANDWICHES FROM THE WHAT DO YOU CALL IT -- THE MC KINNON WAGON THAT COMES TO THE PARK.

Q. ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAD THREE LITTLE BAGS OF SUGAR IN THE BOX?

A. YES, THREE OR FOUR BAGS FROM MC DONALD ' S. THAT IS THE SUGAR WE GET.

Q. OKAY. AND, AS FAR AS CLOTHING, YOU HAD RUBBER BOOTS

A. THAT'S RIGHT.

Q. AND A RAINCOAT?

A. THAT'S RIGHT.

Q. AND IS THAT THE EXTENT OF WHAT PROPERTY YOU HAD?

A. AND THEN PAPERS --

Q. ON THAT NIGHT?

A. (CONTINUING) -- YOU KNOW, BOOKS.

Q. PERSONAL PAPERS, IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN?

A. NO. WE USE IT FOR THE PROTEST.

Q. OKAY.

A. PAMPHLETS AND THAT SORT OF THING.

Q. OKAY.

MR. WOLL: I BELIEVE THAT IS ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE.

THE COURT: MR. GRABER, DO YOU CARE TO INQUIRE?

MR. GRABER: A FEW BRIEF QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. GRABER: GOOD AFTERNOON, MISS PICCIOTTO.

CROSS-EXAMINATION--BY MR. GRABER:

Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF WHETHER OR NOT MR. THOMAS -- WELL, YOU KNOW MR. THOMAS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A. OF COURSE.

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHETHER HE STORES ANY PERSONAL BELONGINGS --

A. NO, HE DOES NOT. HE IS NOT.

Q. DO YOU KNOW A WOMAN NAMED WINNIE GALLANT?

A. YES.

Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW HER?

A. THIS LADY WAS -- CAME TO THE SIDEWALK ONE DAY THAT WE WERE FORCED TO MOVE THE ST;GNS ON ACCOUNT OF THE KKK DEMONSTRATION, AND WE WERE FORCED TO MOVE THE SIGNS FROM THE CENTER OF THE WHITE HOUSE TC) THE CORNER.

SO SHE CAME ALONG AND OFFERED US ASSISTANCE. SHE BROUGHT SOME STRINGS THAT

WE NEEDED TO TIE THEM UP AND SINCE THENWE KNOW THIS LADY, AND SHE OFFERED US HER ASSISTANCE AT HOME. WE BED IN HER HOME. WE HAVE FOOD AT HER HOUSE. WE HAVE

CLOTHING. WE DO EVERYTHING IN HER HOUSE.

Q. MR. THOMAS HAS BELONGINGS --

A. YES, MR. THOMAS AND MYSELF.

THE COURT: WHAT IS THAT PERSON'S NAME? I DID NOT GET IT.

MR. GRABER: WINNIE

THE WITNESS: WINNIE GALLANT.

MR. GRABER: (CONTINUING) -- GALLANT.

THE WITNESS: SHE IS RIGHT HERE IN COURT TODAY.

THE COURT: CAN YOU SPELL IT?

THE WITNESS: THIS LADY IS RIGHT HERE.

MR. GRABER: EXCUSE ME. JUST A MINUTE, PLEASE. G-A-L-L-A-N-T, I BELIEVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: TWO "L'S"?

MR. GRABER: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

BY ME GRABER:

Q. AND SHE LIVES IN WASHINGTON, D. C.?

A. YES, SHE LIVES ON N STREET, 1440 N STREET, NORTHWEST.

Q. NOW, I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED ON DIRECT, BUT I AM NOT SURE I HEARD IT -- I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU. DID YOU SAY THAT MR. THOMAS WAS AWAKE AT THE TIME THAT THE POLICE APPROACHE FOR THE ARREST?

A. HE WAS REPOSING, YES, WITH ME. l

Q. WAS HE LAYING DOWN, EXACTLY HOW WAS HE --

A. NO, HE NOT LAY DOWN FLAT. HE WAS LEANING AGAINST THE SIGN, AND I WAS AGAINST THE CURB OR THE -- THERE IS A LITTLE CURB IN BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE GRASS.

Q. NOW, YOU TESTIFIED YOU WERE CONDUCTING A VIGIL. WOULD IT BE FAIR TC) SAY THAT MR. THOMAS WAS ALSO CONDUCTING A VIGIL?

A. OF COURSE. BOTH TOGETHER, YES. HE IS A VERY COMMITED PERSON AND A VERY SPECIAL ONE.

Q. DID YOU EVER HEAR THE POLICE GIVE YOU A WARNING THAT YOU WERE VIOLATING THE CAMPING REGULATION?

A. THEY CAME IN IMMEDIATELY. WE DID NOT HAVE A CHANCE TO DO ANYTHING, BECAUSE THE FIRST THING THEY DID WAS OFFICER HAYNES GRABBED ME FROM THE BACK AND PUSHED ME UP. THEN IS WHEN I WAS TELLING THOMAS THAT THEY ARE HERE, WHEN I HEARD THE RADIO BEHIND ME. AND HE SAID: "YES, WE ARE HERE."

Q. OKAY. THANK YOU.

MR. GRABER: I HAVE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: VERY WELL. CROSS-EXAMINATION?

MR. SHMANDA: BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR. MAY I HAVE GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 2, PLEASE? THANK YOU.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. MISS PICCIOTTO, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTION.

A. GO AHEAD.

Q. IS IT A FACT, MISS PICCIOTTO, THAT YOU WERE LYING ON YOUR SIDE ON THE SIDEWALK WHEN YOU BECAME AWARE THAT THE OFFICER WAS THERE?

A. I WAS NOT LAYING DOWN. I WAS SITTING -- RECLINING, RATHER. I WAS RECLINING.

Q. AND WHAT WERE YOU RESTING YOUR BALK ON

A. ON THE CURB BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE GRASS.

Q. OKAY. NOW --

A. BUT NOT MY HEAD, MY BACK.

MR. SHMANDA: MAY I SEE GOVERNMENT EXHIBIT NO. 1-- PLEASE?

THE WITNESS: MY BACK WAS AGAINST THAT.

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU.

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. OKAY. SO TI I SHOW YOU GOVERNMENT’S EXIBIT 1 --

A. YES

Q. (CONTINUING) – TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

A. YES.

Q. WHERE YOU SAY YOU WOULD BE RESTING YOUR BACK WOULD BE THE CURB?

A. THAT IS RIGHT. THIS IS BETWEEN THE SIGNS, WHERE WE HAVE A CARDBOARD, AND WE ARE RECLINING THERE.

Q. SO IT WOULD BE --

A. NO, THIS ONE.

Q. (CONTINUING) -- NOT THE CURB NEAREST THE STREET, BUT THE OTHER CURB?

A. THAT IS RIGHT.

Q. YES.

A. THAT IS RIGHT.

Q. OKAY.

A. MY BACK WAS THERE.

Q. AND YOU SAY THAT YOU WERE --

THE COURT: EXCUSE ME. WOULD YOU HAVE HER PUT A MARK ON THAT EXHIBIT --

MR. SHMANDA: CERTAINLY, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: (CONTINUING) -- AS TO WHERE SHE WAS?

MR. SHMANDA: CERTAINLY. A GREASE PENCIL WILL DO. THAT WILL DO IT. YES.

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. IF YOU WOULD TAKE THE PICTURE AGAIN, MISS PICCIOTTO

A. YES.

Q. (CONTINUING) -- AND THE GREASE PENCIL AND PUT A MARK ABOUT WHERE YOU SAY YOU WERE?

A. BETWEEN THESE TWO SIGNS.

THE COURT: WHERE HER BACK WAS.

THE WITNESS: IT IS TOO DARK. YOU NEED --

THE COURT: SHE WAS TRYING TO IDENTIFY THE PLACE WHERE HER BACK WAS.

THE WITNESS: YOU CANNOT PUT IT. IT IS BETWEEN HERE, BUT YOU CANNOT SEE. SEE THE LITTLE CURB HERE? DO YOU SEE IT?

MR. SHMANDA:

Q. YES.

A. THAT IS IN BETWEEN THE SIGNS. THAT IS WHERE WE WERE. THOMAS WAS REPOSING AGAINST THIS, AND I WAS THERE.

Q. COULD YOU JUST PUT A MARK WHERE THE CURB WAS THAT YOU WERE REPOSING AGAINST?

A. RIGHT THERE.

Q. SO YOU PUT A RED MARK ON GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 1; RIGHT?

A. EXCUSE ME.

Q. CERTAINLY.

A. IT IS JUST THAT THE SIGNS WERE IN BETWEEN US HERE.

Q. OKAY.

A. IT WAS NEXT TO THE MUSHROOM. RETWFPN THE MUSHROO… AND THE "WISDOM AND HONESTY."

Q. ALL RIGHT. ON THAT PHOTOGRAPH YOU HAVE PL… RED MARKS?

A. YES.

Q. BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE THAT SIG… UP THERE NOW TO ACTUALLY SEE THE CURB?

A. TO SEE THE CURB, RIGHT.

Q. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. NOW, WER… SHUT WHEN YOU WERE REPOSING?

A. NO, SHUT.

Q. PARDON ME?

A. I WAS RECLINING LIKE THIS.

O. YES, BUT WERE YOUR EYES OPEN OR SHUT?

A. NO, THEY WERE CLOSED.

Q. THEY WERE CLOSED?

A. LOWERED.

Q. LOWERED?

A. YES.

Q. RIGHT. AND CAN YOU TELL US, MISS PICCIOTTO, WHETHER OR NOT, JUST PRIOR TO THE OFFICER COMING, ARRIVING ON THE SCENE, WHETHER YOU WERE CONSCIOUS; IN OTHER WORDS, YOU KNEW WHAT WAS HAPPENING AROUND YOU?

A. YES. AT SIX O'CLOCK THEY HAD THE -- THE NEW SHIFT AND I JUST HAD HAPPENED TO TALK TO THE OFFICER WHO LEFT AT THAT TIME. IT WAS OFFICER JAMES.

Q. AND HOW DID YOU FIRST -- LET ME ASK YOU THIS: WHAT WAS IT THAT FIRST ALERTED YOU IN YOUR MIND THAT THE POLICEMAN WAS THERE?

A. WHEN I HEARD THE RADIOS THERE, I KNEW IMMEDIATELY WHAT THEY WERE UP TO.

Q. SO YOU COULD HEAR THE RADIOS?

A. THAT'S RIGHT.

Q. WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU HEARD THE RADIO, MA'AM?

A. WITH MY HANDS, I TOUCHED THOMAS AND SAID: "THOMAS, THEY ARE HERE. STAND UP. STAND UP."

HE SAID: YES, WE ARE HERE. WE ARE HERE."

Q. AND WHAT DID MR. -

A. NO MORE CHANCES. THEY GRAB US.

Q. I UNDERSTAND, BUT DID YOU GET ANY RESPONSE FROM MR. THOMAS WHEN YOU --

A. NO, THEY GRABBED ME -- YES, SURE. OF COURSE, I DID. BUT THEY WERE GRABBING ME. I TOLD MR. THOMAS, "GET ME MY BAG-" AND THOMAS WENT AND GOT MY BAG.

Q. NOW, WHEN YOU TALKED TO MR. THOMAS, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE WHETHER HIS EYES WERE OPEN OR SHUT?

A. OPEN.

Q. THEY WERE OPEN?

A. YES.

Q- OKAY.

AND HAD YOU BEEN TALKING TO MR. THOMAS BEFORE THE POLICE ARRIVED?

A. YES, ALL. NIGHT.

Q. NO. NO. I MEAN, SAY, FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE POLIC ARRIVED?

A. F IVE MINUTES BEFORE, NO. WE WERE JUST REPOSING, BECAUSE REALLY WE WERE ALL EXHAUSTED, HAVING THE POLICE ALL NIGHT ON US: OFFICER BARRETT WITH THE CAR IN AND OUT OF THE CURB, ON THE SIDEWALK RIGHT AT THE TOP.

[NEED PAGE 43 HERE]

HAD NO CAMPING.

Q. MISS PICCIOTTO, ACCORDING TO GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 2, THERE WERE EIGHT BAGS OF PEANUTS.

A. YES.

Q. THERE WERE SEVEN ONIONS.

A. NO, THAT WAS GIVEN TO US. THE PEANUTS, YES. I USED THEM, BECAUSE SOMEONE IS COMING TO THE PARK EVERY DAY TO FEED THE SQUIRRELS. I USED TO FEED THEM ON THE SIDEWALK OF THE WHITE HOUSE. THE POLICE THREATENED TO ARREST ME IF I FED THE SQUIRRELS ON THE GATES. SO I FED THEM IN THE PARK, AND THAT IS THE REASON.

THE COURT: EXCUSE ME, MA'AM. I DID NOT UNDERSTAND TO WHOM YOU FED THE PEANUTS.

THE WITNESS: A GENTLEMAN WHO COMES TO FEED THE SQUIRRELS EVERY DAY GIVES ME A BAG.

THE COURT: FEED THE WHAT, PIGEONS?

THE WITNESS: YES.

MR. SHMANDA: THE SQUIRRELS.

THE COURT: THE SQUIRRELS?

THE WITNESS: YES.

MR. SHMANDA: THE SQUIRRELS, I THINK SHE SAID.

THE WITNESS: THE SQUIRRELS AND THE PIGEONS, YES. AND THERE IS ANOTHER LADY WHO COMES THERE MOSTLY EVERY DAY. SHE GIVES ME FOUR LOAVES OF BREAD AND PEANUTS TO FEED THE PIGEONS AND THE SQUIRRLES. SO I PUT IT BEHINE THE SIGNS. BUT IT IS FOR THE ANIMALS.

THE COURT: YOU FEED IT TO THE SQUIRRELS?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: OKAY.

BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. MISS PICCIOTTO, AGAIN, MY REFERENCE IS GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT NO. 2. ACCORDING TO THE POLICE, THERE WAS A FRYING PAN?

A. NO.

Q. A BOTTLE OF OLIVE OIL?

A. IT IS MORE LIKE THIS. I USED IT FOR MY HANDS, A LITTLE BOTTLE LIKE THAT. IT COSTS 98 CENTS, A SMALL ONE, WHICH I USE. I CARRY IT USUALLY, WHICH IS STILL THERE IN MY POCKETBOOK. I USE IT. BUT, IN ORDER NOT TO OPEN AND CLOSE MY POCKETBOOK, I LEAVE IT THERE CLOSE BY, IN ORDER TO, YOU KNOW -- THAT'S IT.

Q. SO THAT WAS YOURS?

A. YES.

Q. HOW ABOUT THE FRYING PAN?

A. NO, NO WAY. NO FRY PAN.

Q. NO FRYING PAN?

A. NO, NO. NO, NO. NO.

Q- OKAY. H()W ABOUT THE TWO CHEESE-AND-TOMATO SANDWICHE ON RYE?

A. YES

Q. THOSE WERE YOURS?

A. YES. YES. THAT IS PREPARED AT MISS -

THE COURT: GALLANT?

THE WITNESS: (CONTINUING) -- GALLANT'S HOUSE, YES.

Q. YES, MA'AM. THERE WAS ALSO SOME FRUIT, A CANTALOUP, AND PEACHES?

A. YES. SOMEBODY GAVE US THAT, THAT NIGHT, AS A DONATION.

Q. SO ALL OF THIS FOOD WAS GIVEN TO YOU BY --

A. YES. PEOPLE COME AND GIVE IT TO US.

Q. EXCUSE ME.

A. WE CAN'T EAT EVERYTHING AT THE MOMENT. SO I HAVE TO PUT IT THERE, AND SINCE WE ARE MOSTLY ALL NIGHT AWAKE, SO WE, YOU KNOW, HAVE SOMETHING TO EAT. BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE ARE STORING FOOD THERE IN ORDER TO MAKE A PARTY OR HAVING -- NO, IT IS JUST FOR OUR NEEDS. AND PEOPLE BRING IT TO US MANY TIMES, AND WE SHARE IT WITH THE STREET PEOPLE, TOO. WE SHARE THI- FOOD THAT IS GIVEN TO US WITH THE PEOPLE IN THE PARK.

Q. YES, MA'AM. HOW ABOUT THE THREE SWEATERS AND A HAIR BRUSH?

A. A HAIR BRUSH?

Q. YES.

A. NOT MINE.

Q. NOT YOURS?

A. NO.

Q. YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THAT?

A. NO.

Q. HOW ABOUT THE THREE SWEATERS?

A. THE THREE: SWEATERS, I DON'T THINK SO.

Q. YOU DO NOT THINK THOSE WERE YOURS?

A. I DON'T THINK SO. THE RAINWEAR, YES.

Q. ALL RIGHT.

A. PANTS, RUBBER PANTS, AND ALL THAT STUFF, YES.

Q. WHEN YOU WERE WITH MR. THOMAS THAT NIGHT AND EARLY IN THE MORNING, BEFORE THE POLICE CAME, NOW, WE ARE SPEAKING OF, THAT NIGHT AND THE MORNING, HAD HE BEEN DRINKING?

A. NO.

Q. HE HAD NOT?

A. NO.

Q. YOU HAD NOT --

A. NO.

Q. YOU HAD NOT SEEN HIM USE ALCOHOL?

A. NO. NO. OFFICER HAYNES WAS HARASSING US ALL NIGHT AND OFFICER BARRETT, OR LIEUTENANT BARRETT, ALL NIGHT WITH THE FLASHLIGHTS, ALL NIGHT LONG.

Q. YOU DON'T MEAN TO SAY, MISS PICCIOTTO, THAT OFFICER HAYNES WAS HARASSING YOU ALL NIGHT LONG?

A. NOT HAYNES, EXCUSE ME. JAMES.

Q. OFFICER HAYNES JUST CAME ON DUTY AT 6:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING?

A. THAT IS RIGHT. EXCUSE ME. IF I SAID HAYNES, I AM MISTAKEN. IT WAS JAMES.

Q. OKAY.

A. IT WAS JAMES.

Q- JAMES. OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU THIS, JUST SO WE WILL KNOW:

DID YOU HAVE ANY PRIOR CONTACT BETWEEN OFFICER HAYNES

AND YOURSELF PRIOR TO THIS MORNING?

A. NO. THEY USUALLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY CHANGE SHIFTS, THEY COME AROUND.

Q. YES, MA'AM.

A. THEY LOOK, AND THAT'S IT. BUT, OTHERWISE, I DID NOT HAVE ANY.

Q. WHAT I MEAN BY "CONTACT," HE HAD NEVER, SAY, ARRESTED YOU BEFORE?

A. NO, I DON'T RECALL. I WAS ARRESTED BEFORE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS HIM.

Q. YOU DON'T THINK IT WAS HIM?

A. NO.

Q. AND YOU DON'T RECALL HIM AS HAVING ANY WORDS WITH YOU PRIOR TO THIS MORNING?

A. NO. NO

Q. THANK YOU.

MR. SHMANDA: THAT WOULD COMPLETE MY QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ANY REDIRECT, MR. WOLL?

MR. WOLL: NO, YOUR HONOR, NO REDIRECT.

MR. GRABER: NO QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THANK YOU, MA'AM. YOU MAY STEP DOWN.

THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, SIR.

THE COURT: THE NEXT WITNESS, MR. GRABER?

MR. GRABER: WE WILL CALL WINNIE GALLANT, YOUR HONOR

THE COURT: YES, CALL MISS GALLANT.

WHEREUPON,

WINIFRED GALLANT WAS CALLED AS A WITNESS, AND, HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED, AS FOLLOWS:

THE DEPUTY CLERK: BE SEATED, PLEASE.

DIRECT EXAMINATION -- BY MR. GRABER:

Q. WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, SPELLING YOUR LAST NAME?

A. WINIFRED GALLANT, G-A-L-L-A-N-T.

Q. DO YOU KNOW THE DEFENDANTS IN THIS CASE, MR. THOMAS AND MISS PICCIOTTO?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THEM?

A. JUST A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AGO, I WAS PASSING THE WHITE HOUSE AND BECAME ACQUAINTED.

Q. DO YOU -- DOES MR. THOMAS EVER HAVE OCCASION TO COME TO WHERE YOU LIVE?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. AND COULD YOU BRIEFLY DESCRIBE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MR. THOMAS, AND YOUR RESIDENCE?

A. HE COME'; THERE TO BATHE AND CHANGE CLOTHING, TO TYPE HIS STATEMENTS, TO MAKE 'PHONE CALLS, TO GET TELEPHONE CALLS, AND TO GET A LITTLE REST.

Q. DO YOU KNOW IF HE EVER EATS THERE OR --

A. YES, SIR.

Q. DOES HE STORE ANY PERSONAL BELONGINGS AT YOUR HOUSE?

A. YES, HE DOES, JUST -- I GUESS THE ANSWER IS "YES."

Q. OKAY. THANK YOU.

MR. GRABER: I HAVE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MR. WOLL?

CROSS-EXAMINATION -- BY MR. WOLL:

Q. DO YOU KNOW MISS PICCIOTTO, AS WELL?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. AND DID YOU MEET HER ESSENTIALLY AT THE SAME TIME THAT YOU MET MR. THOMAS?

A. A DAY LATER.

Q. A DAY LATER?

A. YES.

Q- AND DO YOU KNOW THEM TO DEMONSTRATE TOGETHER?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. OKAY. A 24-HOUR VIGIL?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. OKAY. NOW, IN RELATION TO YOUR PROPERTY, YOUR HOME, THIS IS YOUR HOME THAT YOU HAVE TESTIFIED CONCERNING?

A. YES, FOR 14 YEARS.

Q. OKAY. NOW, DOES MISS PICCIOTTO ALSO HAVE ANY CONNECTION WITH YOUR HOME?

A. YES, ESSENTIALLY THE SAME CONNECTION.

Q. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. CAN YOU JUST BRIEFLY DESCRIBE HOW SHE USES YOUR PREMISES?

A. SHE WILL COOK THERE AND PREPARE SANDWICHES FOR BOTH OF THEM AND SOMETIMES PREPARE COFFEE TO TAKE THEM THROUGH THE NIGHT, AND SHE DOES THE LAUNDRY, AND SO FORTH.

Q. OKAY. SO --

A. AND SHE ARRIVES VERY EXHAUSTED SOMETIMES AND SNATCHE A LITTLE SLEEP.

Q. OKAY. NOW, IS SHE STORING THINNGS AT YOUR HOUSE?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. CLOTHING OR --

A. YES

MR. WOLL: FOOD PREPARATION IS SOMETIMES DONE AT HER --

THE COURT: RIGHT. OKAY.

THE WITNESS: YES, IT IS, SIR.

BY MR. WALL:

Q. OKAY.

A. A GOOD BIT.

Q. ALL RIGHT.

ME WOLL: I BELIEVE THAT IS ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE.

THE COURT: MR. SHMANDA?

MR. SHMANDA: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: CROSS-EXAMINATION.

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

CR\OSS-EXAMINATION -- BY MR. SHMANDA:

Q. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS, MA'AM, ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT.

A SURELY.

Q. COULD YOU PLEASE TELL US, MA'AM, WHETHER OR NOT, WITHIN THE PAST YEAR, IN THE CASE OF MISS PICCIOTTO, SHE HAS ACTUALLY SLEPT AT YOUR HOUSE?

A. OCCASIONALLY, YES.

Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU INDICATED TO HER THAT, SO FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED, THAT IS PERMISSIBLE: THAT SHE CAN SLEEP AT YOUR HOUSE?

A. WELL, WHEN YOU ARE SAYING ''SLEEPING," DO YOU MEAN, LIKE, PERMANENTLY, 365 DAYS, OR OCCASIONALLY?

Q. I JUST WANT YOU TO TELL US WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP HAS BEEN SO FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED. DID SHE SLEEP BECAUSE YOU INDICATED, "OH, YOU LOOK EXHAUSTED; LAY DOWN FOR A WHILE"j| OR WAS THERE SOME UNDERSTANDING THAT SHE COULD BASICALLY COME AND GO AND USE YOUR HOUSE FOR THE REASONABLE AND USUAL PURPOSE THAT WE ALL USE HOMES FOR?

A. BY "REASONABLE AND USUAL," I WOULD SAY THAT WOULD ENTITLE YOU TO BE A PERMANENT RESIDENT. DO YOU MEAN THAT, SIR? I AM NOT QUITE SURE.

Q. I AM ASKING YOU WHETHER OR NOT SHE HAS SLEPT AT YOUR HOUSE. I WILL PUT THIS QUESTION TO YOU, MA'AM: HAS SHE SLEPT AT YOUR: HOUSE?

A. YES. YES.

Q. WAS THAT WITH YOUR APPROVAL?

A. SURELY.

Q. I SEE. IN THE CASE OF MR. THOMAS, HAS HE SLEPT AT YOUR HOUSE?

l A. I BELIEVE TWO OR THREE OCCASIONS. HE DID NOT WANT TO BREAK THE VIGIL, BUT I THINK THERE WERE TWO OR THREE NIGHTS. I DON'T REALLY RECALL WHETEHER THERE WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY WIND OR THE POLICE HAD CONFISCATED EVERYTHING, AND THAT WAS WHY IT HAPPENED. IT HAS NOT BEEN THAT THEY WANTED TO SLEEP THERE. IT HAS JUST BEEN THAT THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY BEEN FORCED TO THE WALL AT TIMES.

Q. RIGHT. BUT THERE HAVE BEEN THOSE OCCASIONS IN THE

PAST YEAR WHEN HE HAS DONE THAT?

A. YES, SIR.

Q. SO HE IS THERE, RATHER THAN IN FRONT OF THE WHITE HOUSE?

A. WHEN HE IS AT MY HOUSE, HE IS NOT AT THE WHITE HOUSE, YES.

Q. AND THE SAME CASE WITH MISS PICCIOTTO --

A. YES.

Q. (CONTINUING) -- WHEN SHE IS DOING HER COOKING?

A. YES.

Q. AND ON THE FEW OCCASIONS SHE WAS SLEEPING THERE, OBVIOUSLY, SHE WAS AT YOUR HOUSE AND NOT IN FRONT OF THE WHITE HOUSE?

A. YES, SIR, BUT THEY VERY RARELY SIMULTANEOUSLY ARE AWAY FROM THE WHITE HOUSE. THEY SPELL EACH OTHER.

Q. I UNDERSTAND.

A. YES.

Q. AND HAD YOU BEEN DOWN THERE THAT MORNING? CAN YOU TELL US ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED?

A. WHAT DATE WAS THAT, SIR?

Q. THE 24TH OF SEPTEMBtR.

A. I DON'T BELIEVE I WAS THERE. NO, I DID NOT WITNESS THE ARREST.

Q. OKAY.

A. I HAVE WITNESSED WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN AWAKE AND KICKED IN EVERY PART OF THE BODY BY THE POLICE BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO SIT UP. SO I HAVE SEEN THE POLICE PRESENCE.

THE COURT: I AM SORRY, MA'AM, BUT WE CAN'T RECEIVE THAT EVIDENCE FROM YOU.

THE WITNESS: ALL RIGHT. I AM SORRY. I DIDN'T MEAN TO GET CARRIED AWAY.

MR. SHMANDA: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THAT COMPLETES MY QUESTIONING.

THE COURT: REDIRECT?

MR. GRADER: NO, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MISS GALLANT, DO EITHER OF THEM HAVE A PARTICULAR ROOM AT YOUR HOUSE THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO?

THE WITNESS: NO, I HAVE AN EFFICIENCY APARTMENT.

THE COURT: YOU HAVE A ONE-ROOM APARTMENT?

THE WITNESS: THAT IS WHAT I HAVE, WITH A SMALL DRESSING ROOM.

THE COURT: AND A BATH?

THE WITNESS: AND A BATH AND KITCHEN.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE COURT: AND HOW MANY BEDS?

THE WITNESS: I HAVE ONE BED, AND I HAVE A TRUNDLE BED UNDERNEATH IT, BUT THEY HAVE NEVER USED IT.

THE COURT: WHEN THEY SLEEP THERE, WHERE DO THEY SLEEP?

THE WITNNESS: ON THE FLOOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DO YOU HAVE ANYBODY ELSE WHO HAS ACCESS TO YOUR HOUSE ON THAT BASIS?

THE WITNESS: NO, SIR.

THE COURT: AND HOW FREQUENTLY HAVE THESE -- YOU INDICATED MR. THOMAS HAS SLEPT THERE ABOUT THREE TIMES IN THE LAST YEAR.

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: H0W FREQUENTLY HAS MISS PICCIOTTO SLEPT THERE?

THE WITNESS: I WOULD THINK MAY BE FIVE OR SIX TIMES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. AND CAN YOU TELL ME HOW FREQUENTLY THEY HAVE COME THERE FOR PURPOSES OTHER THAN TO SLEEP, OR, WHETHER THEY CAME THERE FOR THAT PURPOSE, WHETHER THEY HAVE COMETHERE ON OTHER OCCASIONS WITHOUT SLEEPING?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. I SEE CONNIE ON AN AVERAGE OF TWO TO THREE TIMES A DAY, AND THOMAS ON AN AVERAGE OF FIVE TIMES A WEEK.

THE COURT: NOW, ON TH0SE TWO OR THREE TIMES A DAY THAT MISS PICCIOTTO COMES, CAN YOU INDICATE WHAT OTHER THINGS SHE DOES, BESIDES SLEEP? YOU HAVE INDICATED SHE PREPARES MEAL S. AND YOU HAVE INDICATED THAT HE BATHS.

THE WITNESS: YES. SHE DOES DOMESTIC CHORES, ESSENTIALLY, THE THINGS TO KEEP THE VIGIL GOING, FOR THE FOOD AND CLEANLINESS. SHE WILL SOMETIMES PICK UP MAIL FOR THOMAS, AND SO FORTH.

THE COURT: DOES HIS MAIL COME THERE?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: DOES HE USE THAT PLACE AS AN ADDRESS?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: YOU RECEIVE MAIL FOR HIM THERE?

THE WITNESS: YES, I DO, FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, SIR.

THE COURT: THAT IS HIS MAILING ADDRESS?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: AND IS IT REGISTERED AT THE POST OFFICE?

THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW, SIR.

THE COURT: DOES HE EVER RECEIVE 'PHONE CALLS THERE?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, VERY OFTEN.

THE COURT: AND YOU TAKE MESSAGES?

THE WITNESS: YES, I DO, AND MY ANSWERING SERVICE TAKES THEM.

THE COURT: HOW ABOUT MISS PICCIOTTO, DOES SHE RECEIVE MAIL AND TELEPHONE CALLS?

THE WITNESS: MAIL, I BELIEVE. I AM NOT SURE ABOUT THAT. I DON'T BELIEVE SO. I DON'T BELIEVE SHE HAS HAD MAIL.

THE COURT: BUT 'PHONE CALLS?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: HAVE THEY EVER RECEIVED VISITORS THERE?

THE WITNESS: WHEN I AM HOME, YES.

THE COURT: WHO, FOR EXAMPLE?

THE WITNESS: ED POWELL, A UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BUFFALO; WE HAVE HAD TV REPORTERS; WE HAVE HAD NEWSPAPER REPORTERS THERE, WE HAVE HAD TRAVELERS; AND WE HAVE HAD THE NUCLEAR-FREEZE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, INDEPENDENTLY COMING IN, THE HOUSE OF JONAH PEOPLE. IT MAKES IT EXCITING.

THE COURT: NOW, IS THERE A PARTICULAR PLACE IN YOUR APARTMENT WHERE THEY STORE THINGS?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PLACES.

THE COURT: WELL, CAN YOU DESCRIBE THEM?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. THEY HAVE THE WHOLE BOTTOM OF THE CLOSET. I HAVE A TRUNK FOR THEM, SEVERAL LARGE CARTONS.

THE COURT: THAT BOTTOM OF THE CLOSET IS THEIR CLOSET?

THE WITNESS: THAT IS THEIRS. THAT IS THEIRS, YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

THE WITNESS: AND THERE IS A PLACE IN THE KITCHEN FOR UTENSILS AND A SHELF IN THE REFRIGERATOR.

THE COURT: NOW, WAIT JUST A MINUTE. I NEED TO GET THIS DOWN.

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: THE BOTTOM OF THE CLOSET, AND WHAT WAS THE OTHER PLACE?

THE WITNESS IN THE KITCHEN CABINET, THEY HAVE

THE WITNESS: IN THE KITCHEN CABINET THEY HAVE A --

THE COURT: IS THERE A CABINET THAT YOU HAVE SET ASIDE FOR THEM?

THE WITNESS: PART OF A CABINET.

THE COURT: IS IT A PARTICULAR NUMBER OF SHELVES THAT YOU HAVE SET ASIDE FOR THEM? IS THERE SOME SHELF THAT HAS THEIR THINGS ON IT AND NOT YOURS?

THE WITNESS: YES, IN THE REFRIGERATOR AND THE --

THE COURT: HOW MANY OF THOSE?

THE WITNESS: ONE.

THE COURT: ONE SHELF IN THE REFRIGERATOR?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHAT ABOUT THESE CABINET SHELVES?

THE WITNESS: I THINK IT IS ESSENTIALLY CLOSETS AND A TRUNK AND A BOX.

THE COURT: TELL ME ABOUT THE TRUNK. WHERE 15 IT?

THE WITNESS: IN MY LIVING ROOM.

THE COURT: RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LIVING ROOM OR UP AGAINST THE WALL?

THE WITNESS: AGAINST THE WINDOWS.

THE COURT: AND THAT TRUNK BELONGS TO YOU?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: IS THERE ANYTHING IN IT BESIDES THEIR THINGS?

THE WITNESS: NO.

THE COURT: AND ARE THERE THINGS IN IT THAT BELONG TO BOTH OF THEM?

THE WITNESS: I WOULD THINK SO.

THE COURT: OR ONE OR THE OTHER?

THE WITNESS: I WOULD THINK BOTH. I DON'T LOOK IN IT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WELL, DO YOU SEE THINGS GOING IN AND OUT OF IT?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: AND WHAT KINDS OF THINGS?

THE WITNESS: WARM WINTER CLOTHING, RAIN BOOTS, VIGIL LITERATURE -- THAT IS REALLY, ESSENTIALLY, IT.

THE COURT: NOW, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER -- HAS MR. THOMAS EVER GIVEN YOU ANY OTHER ADDRESS AS HIS HOME, BESIDES YOUR HOME, OR MISS PICCIOTTO?

THE WITNESS: NO, SIR.

THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE MAIL FORWARDED TO SOME OTHER PLACE OR RECEIVED THAT IS FORWARDED FROM SOME OTHER PLACE?

THE WITNESS: I DON'T BELIEVE SO, SIR. I DON’T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO IT. I HAVE A PLACE WHERE I PUT THEIR MAIL, AND SO I HAVE NEVER REALLY INVESTIGATED IT.

THE COURT: WHERE IS THAT PLACE?

THE WITNESS: ON MY LIVING ROOM TABLE THERE IS A LITTLE CORNER FOR THEIR MAIL.

THE COURT: AND NOTHING ELSE GOES ON THAT CORNER, BUT THEIR MAIL?

THE WlTNESS: NOTHING GOES ON THAT CORNER. IT IS LIKE A WOODEN DISH WITH A BIG GLASS DOME ON IT, AND I PUT THEIR MAIL UNDER THERE FOR THEM.

THE COURT: UNDER THE DISH?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. YES, SIR. SO THEY ARE PRETTY SELF-SUFFICIENT. THEY REALLY HAVE EVERYTHING, OR A GREAT MANY THINGS, NECESSARY TO MAINTAIN THE VIGIL.

THE COURT: AND, SO FAR AS YOU KNOW, DO THEY HAVE ANY OTHER PLACE WHERE THEY -- PROM WHICH THEY CAN SUSTAIN THEMSELVES?

THE WITNESS: THAT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT.

THE COURT: YOU KNOW OF NO OTHER?

THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW. REALLY, I CAN'T ANSWER AS TO THAT. I HAVE SORT OF AN IDEA THEY MAY HAVE OTHER HELP, BUT I DO NOT WANT TO PRY INTO THEIR AFFAIRS.

THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND. AND, JUST TO MAKE SURE I HAVE YOUR TESTIMONY CORRECTLY -

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE COURT: (CONTINUING) -- MISS PICCIOTTO COMES IN THERE TWO TO THREE TIMES A DAY?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, ON AN AVERAGE.

THE COURT: MR. THOMAS COMES IN THERE ABOUT FIVE TIMES A WEEK?

THE WITNESS: I WOULD THINK THAT IS ABOUT IT, SIR, AND I VISIT THEM UP THERE, TOO.

THE COURT: NOW, DO YOU TAKE THINGS TO THEM?

THE WITNESS: I HAVE OCCASIONALLY BROUGHT THINGS, BUT NOT USUALLY. I TRY TO VIGIL FOR THEM FOR AN HOUR OR SO.

THE COURT: DO YOU SIT WITH THEM ON THE VIGIL?

THE WITNESS: ONCE IN A WHILE.

THE COURT: THIS KIND OF VIGIL?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, ONCE IN A WHILE.

THE COURT: IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU GENERALLY DON'T TAKE THEM FOOD, BUT THAT THEY COME BACK TO YOUR APARTMENT FOR WHATEVER FOOD THEY EAT?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, THEY COME TO ME.

THE COURT: DO YOU SHOP FOR THEM?

THE WITNESS: NO, I DON'T, SIR.

THE COURT: DO YOU PROVIDE ANY MONEY FOR THEM?

THE WITNESS: I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, HOW THAT RELATES TO THEIR CAMPING.

THE COURT: IF YOU ARE OBJECTING, YOUR OBJECTION IS SUSTAINED. ALL RIGHT.

MR. SHMANDA: YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES, MR. SHMANDA.

MR. SHMANDA: WHEN YOU HAVE FINISHED, I WANTED TO ASK ONE QUESTION.

THE COURT: OF COURSE. OF COURSE. I AM JUST TRYING TO GET THIS STRAIGHT. HAVE YOU EVER HAD A TENANT --

THE WITNESS: NO, SIR.

THE COURT: (CONTINUING) -- TO WHOM YOU HAVE RENTED ROOMS, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

THE WITNESS: NO, SIR.

THE COURT: YOU OBJECT TO THIS QUESTION, IF YOU FEEL IT IS OBJECTIONABLE. DO THEY PAY YOU RENT?

THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. NO, SIR.

THE COURT: DO THEY DO ANYTHING FOR YOU THAT WE LAWYERS WOULD CONSIDER CONSIDERATION? DO THEY DO CHORES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

THE WITNESS: IF I HAVE AN EMERGENCY, THEY ALWAYS ARE LOVING AND HELPFUL.

THE COURT: WELL, AN EMERGENCY LIKEWHAT?

THE WITNESS: IF I HAVE BEEN ILL, OR SOMETHING, OR WE ARE GOING TO HOLD A LITTLE CHRISTMAS EVE CELEBRATION, OR SOMETHING, THEY WILL SAY, "HEY, HOW ABOUT LET'S CLEAN THIS UP?"

AND THEY HAVE HELPED ME WHEN MY SISTER HAS BEEN DESPERATELY ILL, AND, EVEN THOUGH AS EXHAUSTED AS THEY MAY E, THEY HAVE COME TO THE RESCUE.

THE COURT WHERE IS YOUR SISTER?